Re: (TFT) TFT Battle tools.

[Rick Smith <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca>]

That is a pretty sweet idea!

Rick

On 2015-11-20, at 8:06 AM, Thomas Fulmer wrote:

> If you are just after more fun, add some gambling. You start off with some
> amount of money and gamble on the arena combats.
> 
> Perhaps it shows you the two teams, let's you put in a bet, then they go at
> each other for your bread and circus style entertainment.
> 
> --Thomas
> 
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015, 06:49 David Bofinger <bofinger.david@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I wasn't  thinking of utilities particularly. I was thinking in capability
>> push terms rather than requirements pull: I have this silly toy, how can I
>> make it a more fun silly toy. One people will enjoy playing with.
>> 
>> I don't know I'd have that much faith in the program as it stands for your
>> purpose. Without a lot more tactical nous it really can't predict outcomes.
>> I haven't even added missile weapons yet though I maybe will. You'd
>> probably do better with a spreadsheet based on stats.
>> 
>> ---
>> David
>> Hi David,
>>  I have an active TFT group, so we play out our Battles live.
>> 
>>  However, if you are thinking of useful TFT utilities, a simple
>> system that can have the PC's entered into it and then their
>> enemies and say if it will be a close battle would be useful
>> to me.
>> 
>> 
>>  Warm regards, Rick.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2015-11-19, at 9:41 PM, David Bofinger wrote:
>> 
>>> Perhaps instead of writing a program that conducts hundreds of
>> consecutive
>>> TFT battles, maybe I should have written one that generates text, like it
>>> seems Jay has.
>>> 
>>> I'm thinking to be fun the program needs interactivity. That means two
>>> things:
>>> 
>>> * Conversion to JavaScript and a Web interface.
>>> 
>>> * Some degree of human input: e.g. The ability to directly control one
>>> character.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> David
>>> On 20/11/2015 1:53 PM, "Jay Carlisle" <maou.tsaou@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Can it do football?
>>>> A turring test I use to feel out flow.
>>>> 5 second turns are awkward from a game view where the roll to hit
>>>> feels like a specific swing even though it's undefined injury hp's and
>>>> it's hard to make that clear which is important as the gametools are
>>>> about detailing so players aren't in different realms with abstract
>>>> terms imaginatively speaking. Players need to agree on visualization
>>>> in a shared creative experience or the different ideas of what
>>>> fireball is can make for messy oops when the difference pops up four
>>>> sessions into play and NOW find it's a baseball not AD&D PH flash fire
>>>> of fumes filling lots more volume.
>>>> I also added athletics and got rid of abstract injury counting fatigue
>>>> in hp and have 1 second phase turns so literally mean football but I'm
>>>> Me and ditched GM's in favor of setting up objective sandbox environs
>>>> that can't have player above all other players plop nether region poop
>>>> at will into play instead striving for a design anytime but in play
>>>> attempt at objectivity elseif I'd box My personality and push that
>>>> instead of trying to make a game. Call it D&D but it's not the same
>>>> thing if everybody plays so different that houserules define a
>>>> specific table set up to whatever format quarter inch graph here 5 sq
>>>> per inch there and papertape movement the other. My designs should fit
>>>> all tables playing said game elseif top of the table is basically
>>>> nerfed into decoration rather than encouraged and collected for use of
>>>> the community.
>>>> IMHO of course... I think rules lawyers irked GG so bad He over
>>>> reacted. To much questioning was the claim but read that hot mess and
>>>> piss poor publishing and editing makes questioning necessary sooooo
>>>> piss on a meta player back to a table of equals and if You wanna tell
>>>> a story write a book but plotting game makes play pointless like so
>>>> many button presses between cut scene unaffected by play at all...
>>>> Play to the mediums strengths not mimic another mediums pidgin...
>>>> poorly. Gameplay implies fairness and impactive participation not
>>>> personal whim and wing it but say it's got depth like lost or x files.
>>>> Depth requires design and can't be hidden long by pretty drawings or
>>>> similar distractions. Improv ain't gonna script Adaptation and
>>>> whatever the market model is these days is better termed paticaptory
>>>> fiction or somesuch not trying to invalidate what can work fine as
>>>> entertainment... maybe the point after justifying what the hell one
>>>> spent ones adult life mucking about with a game shame that might be
>>>> showing a tiny bit but not heavy on fairness, effect of a given player
>>>> on actual plot or tiny details like how many gp's are in circulation
>>>> or where the "Orc's" (half-orc means race not monster... shameful fail
>>>> to find any tinge to kill and loot to progress period and wargames saw
>>>> My slap happy ass in 82nd cause the conflict was framed as fun and the
>>>> rest wasn't even hinted as downsides which doesn't have to be preached
>>>> but I ain't making recruitment propaganda for pax americana so war can
>>>> cause more problems than it corrects... kills... whatever) come from
>>>> before the left turn out GMs ass and how many ass orcs does that clown
>>>> car caboose hold? Stories can skip what isn't pert but Players pop
>>>> quantum wave functions in gameworlds same as realworld just asking
>>>> questions and winging actual figures can come back quick to bite
>>>> storytellers but ignoring Player questions is... well I find it awful
>>>> art as well as evidence of a group to bid g'day too if not intent on
>>>> usurp the gimp GM's GURP's group which is a dick move in itself but I
>>>> hate stupid murder porn so primetime tv is not on My radar as I could
>>>> care less about hurting murder porns feelings and storytelling GM's
>>>> get little better if trying to bully ME. Bitch this is MY HOUSE and
>>>> has been for 40 years now so You go do You but I ain't got time to
>>>> stroke ego's with nada but bravado backing it. Most GM's know how to
>>>> barter with implied suggestions so My scathing MINE'S BIGGER bs has
>>>> only issued forth a few times for idiots trying to authority ME like I
>>>> don't have authority issues or hands on experience and no gut from
>>>> devoting Myself to hedgefund management instead of game as art ramen
>>>> and a temper about MY subject. Y'all's too, ownership isn't exclusive
>>>> here but starting with pathfinder ain't cred likely to correct or make
>>>> dps seem like a good metric for tabletop when trying to trump My
>>>> Bunnies and Burrows ace in the hole kid. You like it? Valid but not an
>>>> objective argument for superior mechanic and certainly not necessary
>>>> for all RPG's (while bitchin bout no GM too... picky kid who won't eat
>>>> but one thing) but design is a bitchgoddes that promptly throws You
>>>> under the bus when critique or complaints bandy about somehow prior to
>>>> publication because game is like god... all good till a question or
>>>> two is asked and god isn't unifing no more and game becomes taste. MY
>>>> subject. If I wasn't stupid or arrogant I'd not be here so sue Me... I
>>>> try to empower Players to play the game they want rather than suffer
>>>> illusions of ownership without falling away into homebrew hinterlands
>>>> localized out of any formal relation past title and with an eye toward
>>>> besting what is to a final form rather than market releases to drive
>>>> profit but ditch rules to sell copy making each edition a different
>>>> game which has no reason to do much at all as it's throw away in half
>>>> a decade and not striving for the best expression at all because
>>>> Players are to be milked of all monies possible not served ones best
>>>> to a community of fellows trusting the rest to follow. Why make the
>>>> best make believe possible when no ones paying You? Because no one
>>>> else would. Game is what had market success not mythmaking and
>>>> mythologizing creatively instead of just buying the party line like
>>>> You can't tweak the story to suit. Civilization as escalator of upward
>>>> progress bs ignoring how horrible We are at it. Humans as multicelled
>>>> community organisms not individuals consisting of the waking ego and a
>>>> reflex or two who can't survive alone being fundemental to a
>>>> harmonious view of existance instead of trying to fix a gender pay gap
>>>> that doesn't exist because heard it on tv is as good as saw it on tv
>>>> as proof of anything. Everyone knows aluminum leave a loony tunes
>>>> cyote shaped hold hitting steel reinforced concreate. Equal and
>>>> opposite does just that and is probably what David Copperfield used
>>>> making the statue of liberty disappear which I saw only trumped by
>>>> expert testamony and a computer model as conclusive evidence that the
>>>> popular rags ain't worth paper to wipe the jericurl left by all those
>>>> exiting ass-orcs balance like AI is "computer players cheat" and poor
>>>> fits for actual game. Got a lucky crit streak? Watch the extra
>>>> ass-orcs make the fight longer to suit the GM. I try plucking fair
>>>> outta there and leave the story to the sumation but I got weird ideas
>>>> about playable non-combat characters and constructive play options to
>>>> advance to contrast destructive play. King's are not playable unless
>>>> You count the kingdom but why put populations instead of nothing and
>>>> npcs following the orc route which I wouldn't rule either... I don't
>>>> even use two moons or babble names for common concepts or even not
>>>> Earth as objective example which is stupid of Me because everyone can
>>>> ID a 20 mile box of area as specifically here not there while driving
>>>> perfectly farting cherry blossom fresh stink to and subjective
>>>> objective examples are where ass people are pulled from.
>>>> Fantasy is not about small considered changes to existing knowns but
>>>> about drawing a locational map and babble names and ignoring existing
>>>> norms while using them ergo Middle Earth is Earth normal gravity or
>>>> Legolas's bow needs lots o splainin like bullets on Mars if bothering
>>>> to go past space opera there will be no math in THIS game dictum more
>>>> than description. I try to explain a frame past what Players should
>>>> ever access to cover clever girls dropping My concept by designing
>>>> deep magic say not buzz wording it like a full concept. Magic is often
>>>> meh to unformed conceptually much less deep magic. Lilly guilding
>>>> again rather than claiming loose conception pretending to depth that
>>>> ain't never been there. Lore before game is horse pullin by cart. Game
>>>> plays lore is told. Like putting everything in a digital RPG as code
>>>> for no reason other than fixation forgetting playing to strength
>>>> options code can't carry. The touch table plant is in My neck o the
>>>> woods and worth consideration untill sales numbers show if the ground
>>>> is fallow but if so We have table experience others lack and can't
>>>> implement if not locked into code period like game must have story
>>>> because xbox not Atari2600 roots and I can rant a LONG TIME here but
>>>> think I finally got win10 malware nuked and can use My gumped machine
>>>> to play nice with the other boys and girls I'm looking to convert this
>>>> with for Jay purposes and residual info that may help if reported back
>>>> sooooooo Jay shuts up... amazing even Me. Jay Joyce was a rotten
>>>> method for Me to mimic and learning to sortta type at 50/60wpm or more
>>>> made Me dangerous able to rant ad nausium and type what I think which
>>>> is worse than just posting nudie pics at the list which is just...
>>>> well not what I'd want to communicate to something I consider a
>>>> personal treasure so Jay's jewels are a TFT teabag of some awful awful
>>>> tea.
>>>> Yet that's what comes of My trickle of cluelessness coupled with the
>>>> competence compulsive failure forces from a Universe fed up with
>>>> trying to signal a stupid soul engaged in stupid... the asylum becomes
>>>> the inmates domain and... THIS!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 1:26 PM, David Bofinger
>>>> <bofinger.david@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Cris:
>>>>>> If it's random, then you have a simulator, right?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, that's the point of the project.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> There must be some decent AI, too?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course. Brilliant AI. That the heroes and monsters just scream and
>>>> leap
>>>>> without a thought for tactics or survival? I must have wanted it to
>>>> happen
>>>>> that way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Seriously, the AI it has now is pretty basic. They just run at each
>> other
>>>>> and they don't even think about where their friends are. Though they
>>>> think
>>>>> a little harder about their facing. Sometimes they feel so happy with
>>>> their
>>>>> back against a wall that they stay out of the fight for a turn or two.
>>>>> Better AI would be a possibility but it sounds hard and I don't know if
>>>> it
>>>>> would make the program any more fun.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just added terrain: random groups of blocked hexes. And logic to stop
>> a
>>>>> battle if the two sides find themselves isolated. :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> That's a good question: what *would* make this more fun?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> What language did you write it in?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's Java. Very bad Java. I didn't think before I started typing. For
>>>>> instance: in retrospect the hex map should have made less use of
>>>> Cartesian
>>>>> coordinates and more of arrays of neighbours.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Will you make it open source (put it on Github)?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think for the moment if anyone wants it they can ask me and I'll
>> mail.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for mailing me privately about methods of displaying hexes but
>>>>> really displaying the hexes is the easy part and I'm not going to
>> change
>>>> it
>>>>> now. Unless this is somehow relevant to converting it to a web app,
>> which
>>>>> might be a very good idea. Converting to Javascript should be easy,
>>>>> shouldn't it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Greg:
>>>>>> Do the blue guys always win?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not in general, there's the occasional total party kill. But there
>> might
>>>>> not be one in the battles I put up, I didn't check.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The program adjusts the strength of monsters after every fight to get
>> an
>>>>> average of 50 points of pain for the characters each battle. One dead
>>>>> character is 50 points, and one point of damage on a character is 1
>>>> point.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Each battle the number of characters gets randomly chosen. If there's
>> too
>>>>> many some get benched for a battle. If there's not enough some new ones
>>>> get
>>>>> made. Characters accumulate experience and each time they get a level
>>>> they
>>>>> have a 50% chance of increasing ST (perhaps with a change of weapon)
>> and
>>>>> 50% of increasing DX. Then they might change their armour and/or
>> shield.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> The animation was a little fast for me to see what was going on
>>>>>> at first.  Maybe added a speed setting or a scrubber bar so that you
>>>> can
>>>>>> go back to see what happened.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The program makes a sequence of PNG images, which I turned into a GIF
>>>>> animation using VirtualDub. I read on the web it makes small GIF files,
>>>>> which seemed important. I also tried FFMPEG but didn't have much luck:
>>>> got
>>>>> it to work once but the file was huge and then I changed settings and
>> it
>>>>> never worked again. :-( I could certainly slow the animation down, but
>> I
>>>>> don't know how to do speed settings. It's annoying that browsers, etc.,
>>>>> don't let you change speed. Anyone got any thoughts?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Marc:
>>>>>> how it compares with Lloyd's simulator?
>>>>> 
>>>>> There are many duel simulators but I haven't seen any other skirmish
>>>>> simulators.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thomas:
>>>>>> If your map allowed for entering turns/tokens in a simple
>>>>>> format then displayed the map with movements/facings/attacks
>>>>>> from a simple text input it would save a lot of time in that regard.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you want the code I'll send it but I think you'll getting nicer
>>>> results
>>>>> from a simple drawing package.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> David
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 20 November 2015 at 02:23, Greg Thorne <Greg.Thorne@sas.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Very cool.  The animation was a little fast for me to see what was
>>>> going on
>>>>>> at first.  Do the blue guys always win?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Very Cool!  The animation was a little fast for me to see what was
>>>> going on
>>>>>> at first.  Maybe added a speed setting or a scrubber bar so that you
>>>> can g
>>>>>> o back to see what happened.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Question:  Do the blue guys always win?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Greg Thorne
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 11:58 PM, David Bofinger <
>> bofinger.david@gmail.com
>>>>>> <mail
>>>>>> to:bofinger.david@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wrote code to generate animations like this, and I'm interested in
>>>>>> people's thoughts.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8kf98b1vtng46nh/tftbattles.gif?dl
>>>>>> It has a lot of the Advanced Melee rules, some of them approximated,
>>>>>> twenty-eight character templates, thirty-one simplified monster
>>>>>> definitions. No wizards, no missiles weapons (wouldn't be that hard to
>>>> add
>>>>>> but might not be much fun), no tactics much other than "Charge!" Tell
>> me
>>>>>> what you think.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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