Re: Armour Talents

[Martin Gallo <martimer@mindspring.com>]

I am not even remotely trying to suggest that armor weight had no effect on speed or coordination or stamina. I am trying to imply that there is a difference between just putting on extra weight once a week and doing so daily while training. When one is conditioned to the weight and overall encumbrance it has less of an effect.

I have worn armor an was in the SCA for a while - Most of my combat experience is from fencing (foil). So I am not nearly as experienced as you with armor. I note that “blunt force” and “lethal force” are different experiences and am glad the SCA and fencing was all about the former rather than the latter.

.

On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:30 AM, David Bofinger <bofinger.david@gmail.com> wrote:

Sure, and sword fighting was taught using weighted fake swords that were heavier than the real thing, to build up muscles so that the real swords would feel light.

Should we therefore conclude that the weight of a sword has no effect on the speed and agility with which it can be wielded? Of course not. Real swords were kept light because lighter swords were faster and less tiring than heavy ones. Everything is a tradeoff.

I wonder whether soldiers trained with armour that was heavier than the real thing. Haven't heard they did.

--

David

On 20 October 2017 at 02:08, Martin Gallo <martimer@mindspring.com> wrote:

Another thing to consider is that most of the people wearing all that armor were trained while wearing it and so the weight was less of an issue. Still fatiguing, still hindering, yes,  but most athletes “train heavy”.

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 9:42 AM, raito@raito.com wrote:
>
> Well, it looks like the list gods have decided to actually send me
> messages again.
>
> You guys do know that Runequest was written by guys who'd seen SCA combat,
> right?
>
> Remember that the hauberk circa 1200 was also worn by a person whose
> primary mode of movement was the horse. Having done that, I find that
> everything below the waist is not weighing down the shoulders.
>
> Also a fun fact: a hauberk for someone 6', 195lbs. made of 14 gauge fence
> wire and 5/16" ID rings weighs 55 lbs. I know because I made one, in my
> youth.
>
> Period mail is much, much lighter. Larger rings, lighter wire. But the
> rings are either riveted or solid, which makes the whole much more
> protective. Knowing just what period mail weighted is a near impossible
> task. Not only does not much of it survive (from the age of mail --
> there's later stuff around), but what does survive is suspect in the
> weight department because of metal loss. However, a weight of half that
> isn't an unreasonable estimate.
>
>> Armor is heavy.  Go to an SCA event and try some on. It tires you out and
>> weighs you down.  I real world terms one needs to balance the damage
>> protection vs. the loss of agility.  It’s a trade off, and a good one at
>> times.
>
> SCA duke here, with 40 years in harness. Plus a bunch of other and varied
> experiences.
>
> My current rig is about 45 pounds, which is what the originals I based it
> on weigh. Helmet is heaver than period, the rest nominally lighter.
>
> I don't find that my agility is affected by wearing armour, but I've had a
> lot of practice. Sure, I can't run as fast, but that's not the same thing.
> I can do anything in armour that I can do out of armour, modulo bathroom
> use and fine motor skills while wearing gauntlets. I've tested this out by
> doing things like wrestling guys who weren't wearing armour. I'm not
> slowed down by it.
>
> But I do agree with a couple points raised here.
>
> Point 1: Game systems need consistency, not realism (though more real is
> better than less real sometimes). You want real, go join a group that does
> armoured combat. And even that won't be real, because we all have to go to
> work Monday.
>
> Wearing armour is a skill. I can arm myself at 8 in the morning and take
> it off at sundown and not suffer any physical fatigue from wearing the
> armour. But I've been at it a long, long time. New guys get out of breath
> just walking to the field. And while it doesn't affect my movement, the
> new guys don't quite know what to do with themselves.
>
> Neil Gilmore
> raito@raito.com
>
>
>
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