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Re: [Slope: Ch 11] Yet another idea on how to improve Defending
Hi Peter, everyone.
If I wanted to make defend a contest, that is simple enough to do, but
what I was trying to find was a minor tweak to the current defend option
to make it a bit stronger.
Your point about defend triggering a contest of some sort between the
attacker and defender not happening all the time is well made.
I created some (too complex) parrying rules long ago, and they bogged
down the game since they were being used every attack and defence,
once the players got half decent. But if they are only triggered on the
defend option, that would not be any where near such a big problem.
On the other hand, if high DX figures can normally trigger a counter
attack when they defend, that is taking the rules in a direction that I
DON’T want to go in.
Warm regards, Rick.
> On May 16, 2018, at 5:42 PM, PvK <pvk@oz.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> I don't have time for a lot of analysis right now but want to give a little input.
>
> I like that you're trying to do something to improve Defending, and I think your 16+ miss suggestion is a decent step in that direction. The weakness I see though is that it still makes no difference what the skill of the defender is, and that it also makes attacker skill over 15 moot (unless they have other ways to use their DX, such as taking an Aimed Shot).
>
> Personally, and IIRC what we used to do, was say that a 4 against someone doing Defend/Dodge is so unlikely that it should still be triple damage, and IIRC we had 5 as double damage, since those are the lowest two results. I think we nudged those ranges up one more each if the attacker had Fencing (4 or 5 triple, 6 or 7 double, 8 auto-hit).
>
> Nudging the numbers needed from dropped and broken weapons down on Defend (but NOT on Dodge) seems nice and reasonable, but I'd be careful about the resulting percentages, wanting to keep them small and keep a break significantly less likely than a drop result. Looking at the curve, I don't really see a setting I like for a simple roll, because an auto result will happen even for a DX 6 hobgoblin defending with a pointed stick, and if I nudge it up above TFT's 21+ to include 20, that's a 5.4% chance, which I think is too high for a skilled person attacking an incompetent person, so I'd stick with TFT's 21-22 drop, 23-24 break.
>
> Off the top of my head, I'm thinking it might be interesting to give the Defend-er a roll too, to take their skill into account and introduce a chance of a riposte, e.g.:
>
> Attacker rolls 4 dice to hit:
> 4 is triple damage. (0.08%)
> 5-6 is double damage. (1.16%)
> 7 is auto-hit (2.7%)
> 20 is auto-miss (2.7%, or 5.4% if you include the drop/break chances - seems generous to the DX 6 defender)
> 22-23 is dropped weapon (2.31%)
> 23-24 is broken weapon (0.39%)
>
> But then I (liker of GURPS defense, which this is not, since it's only on Defend, where otherwise the Defender gets no chance to hit) am thinking maybe:
>
> Defender rolls 4 dice to defend:
> * If the roll is their DX or less, they block/evade the attack.
> * If the roll is HALF their DX or less, they hit the attacker.
> * Special effects as per the table above, but no auto-hits.
>
> PvK
>
>
> --- rick_ww@lightspeed.ca wrote:
>
> From: Rick <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca>
> To: "The_slope@googlegroups.com" <The_slope@googlegroups.com>, "tft@brainiac.com" <tft@brainiac.com>, CJ <chrjames@gmail.com>, Matt Fraser <mathesonfraser@gmail.com>, Alec Morrison <alphaalec@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Slope: Ch 11] Yet another idea on how to improve Defending
> Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 15:23:29 -0700
>
> Hi Richard,
> Not sure what you’re saying here. Are you saying you do not like my
> suggested rule?
>
> Warm regards, Rick.
>
>> On May 16, 2018, at 4:39 AM, Angelina Defense <angelina.defense@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> We played the numbers for "saving throws" on the Fantasy Master's Screen.
>>
>> Min Success Max
>> Dice Triple Double Fail Break
>> 3 3 5 16 18
>> 4 4 8 20 24
>> 5 5 11 24 30
>> 6 6 14 28 36
>> ... etc
>>
>> The advantages of high DX were just too great, and seemed like a bonus every time someone would elect to defend against your character. So, the automatic miss and break rules needed to remain, although adjusted for the totals.
>>
>> Good Fortune,
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Rick <rick_ww@lightspeed.ca <mailto:rick_ww@lightspeed.ca>> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> In TFT, if you defend, the opponent rolls 4 dice. Triple damages
>> become impossible, (since you can’t roll a 3 on 4 dice), and the
>> chance of getting a double damage becomes almost impossible.
>> (Rolling a 5 (an automatic hit), is also very difficult on 4 dice.
>>
>> The rules do NOT say that triples happen on 4 or 5, and double
>> damages happen on 6 or 7’s. (Normally, the chances of critical
>> successes and failures scale with the number of dice, but not
>> critical successes for defending or dodging.)
>>
>>
>> Now defending is a fine option against people with a 14 DX or less,
>> but for figures with very high DX, defending is a wasted action, you
>> defend (losing your action), and they will likely hit anyway.
>>
>>
>> My suggestion is that when you defend, 16 or higher rolls to hit you
>> STILL count as automatic misses.
>>
>> The chance of a 16+ on 4 dice is, 33.56%
>>
>> So if you defend, even against an opponent of very high DX, you
>> have about a 1/3 chance of getting an auto miss.
>>
>> I was going to leave dropped weapons at 21 & 22, and broken
>> weapons at 23 & 24.
>>
>> I am running a fight in my pbem game, and a bunch of the good guys
>> are defending vs. skilled opponents and I’m finding it is just a waste
>> of time.
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Warm regards, Rick
>>
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