(TFT) Re: Mental abilities of controlled characters

[WarPlayer@aol.com]

>	If the wizard did not have mace talent he could attack at -4 DX 
>like any other untrained figure.  I checked the rules and they 
>didn't say it  couldn't work this way.  Or am I missing something?
     You are missing a lot.  Consider the case of a SUMMONED person.  The 
Control Person spell takes over the power to keep the summoned person, 
well, summoned.  Summoned people definately can use their weapon talents, 
and other talents.  Thus, in at leas that case, the Control Person spell 
must allow the same thing.  There is no point in summoning a fighter who 
can't use his weapons.

>I was origionally going to say, the controlled person could not use 
>the intellectual talents ...
>	However if you assume that the wizard is 
>not good at controlling the body of the controlled 
>person it could be rationalized so I went with the 
>simpler rules.
     He is not controling the BODY, he is controling the MIND.  Totally 
different thing.  The fact that the wizard can cast a spell while 
controling someone is proof enough.  If the wizard was controling the 
body, he could not attack himself, or cast a spell, shile the controlled 
figure also engages in complex action, like an attack.
>	However I completely forgot about the weapon talents!  I agree that 
>a controlled fightershould still be able to use his weapons.  But must
>he be as skilled as when when HE was controlling him?
     Yes!  See above paragraph on Controling Summoned people.

>	I tend to feel that the wizard should either get to use all of the 
>talents of the controlled figure or none of them.  
     The WIZARD does not get to use ANY of the talents of the controlled 
figure.  The Controlled Person gets to use his own talents.  The wizard 
gets to use his own talents.  The Controlled figure has simply been 
magically "hypnotized" or "brainwashed".  He no longer controls 

>	I don't feel easy about the idea of controlling someone so you 
>can suddenly write his language.
     The wizard does not gain control of the persons talents or memories, 
or even access to them.  The controlled figure gets to use its own 
talents.  Thus, if I control an who can write, I can order the orc to 
write a note.  If I use arcane magic terms that the orc doesn't 
understand, then the translation the orc writes will be flawed.  If I 
order it to paint the word "stop" (in orc) on a red octogon, then the 
task is easy, and the orc will do it.  

>I've always seen the Control Spells as a temporary
>possession, which buries the subject's mind 
>and memory (if successful and not so alarming
>that the spell is resisted).  After all the subject 
>only knows who tried to control him if the spell 
>is resisted.  (Paragraph 10 again.) 
     WRONG!  The subject only knows who the controller was if the control 
attempt was first successful, and then was resisted after being given a 
suicide order (or other extreme order).  If the spell is resisted int he 
first place, the target is not even told.  "...the victim is 
unaffected..."  (previous paragraph.)

>	If you assume the model is that you are telepathicly linked 
>and become allies in a body, then getting access to all of the subject's
>skills and knowledge makes a lot more sense.
     No.  No.  No!   That is not at all what the rules describe.  The 
Control Spell is like a quest.  The person controlled will attempt, to 
the best of his ability, to accomplish the task commanded.  The telepathy 
is one way.  If asked later why he suddenly threw the bag of gold he had 
been carrying into a well, or bet it all on a 100-1 horse at the race 
track, he will not know why.  He is likely to make up an excuse, like "it 
seemed like a good way to keep the gold safe" or "I had a hunch that the 
horse would win."  The telepathic orders from the wizard are followed as 
if they are the controlled persons own idea.  If the orders are too 
extreme, like "jump off of this 100 foot cliff", the person will catch 
himself, and think "What am I doing?"  This gives him a second saving 
throw.  If the saving throw is made, the controlled person discovers the 
mental link to the wizard, and knows who the wizard is.  If the saving 
throw fails, then he jumps to his death.
     To sum up.  The controlled person gains no skills from the wizard.  
The wizard gains no skills from the controlled person.  Each uses his own 
skills.  Neither gains access to the others memory.  If a wizard orders 
an illiterate orc to write a message, the orc will try, and will make 
marks on paper.  They won't be writing, but there may be an orc letter in 
the "message" somewhere.  Just like when my illiterate 3 year old writes 
a note to me, sometimes I can recognize a letter (usually an A, which is 
her favorite letter right now).

     I hope this clarifies how I, and my friends, always understood the 
control spell function.



-------------------------------
John Hill /;->
WarPlayer@aol.com
-------------------------------
"If you cooperate we'll reduce the charges from hit and run murder 
to littering."

"We would have believed it was an accidental shooting if 
he hadn't changed magazines... 
     TWICE."


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