Re: (TFT) RE: Copywrite Questions

[Guy McLimore <guymc@evansville.net>]

Gadda, Charles A at charles.a.gadda@lmco.com on 6/10/99 10:18 AM said:

>> #1 - What issues are involved with making a TFT compatible module? Now, I
>> believe if I genericise it enough I should be all right. Seems to me that
>> Mayfair Games made quite a few "Role Playing Supplements" that, by amazing
>> coincidence, worked VERY well with AD&D rules ... To my knowledge, they
>> never got into trouble for it. So, how far may one legally stretch this?
>> At what point does the mention of certain rules, names or concepts become
>> copywrite infringement?

In point of fact, Mayfair did run into problems, and (IIRC) eventually 
had to come to terms with TSR for their use of "compatible with Dungeons 
and Dragons" on their covers and in their ads.

As an off-the-cuff thing, I'd expect that use or mention of the TFT 
"house campaign world" of Cidri or creations done especially for it would 
be right out. Any substantial reproduction of the rules or material from 
the rules in any form (such as spell lists or weapon stats) would be 
inadvisable as well.

The biggest problem might be getting around the use of "The Fantasy 
Trip", a trademarked name. If you say the game is "compatible with The 
Fantasy Trip", there is precedent for saying that alone is actionable. If 
you don't say that, what's the point?

You can produce adventure material that is non system-specific all you 
like, but when you start producing characters, monsters, etc. that have 
system-specific stats, you may run into trouble. Or not, if Howard 
doesn't surface to sue you. *I* don't want to risk that myself, but YMMV.

Besides, if commercial exploitation is your goal, why do it for a system 
that no one can buy the basic rules for? Your market for a TFT-based 
adventure pack is EXTREMELY limited, and isn't going to grow, 
substantially.

>> #2 - I've perused threads going back to at least November of last year in
>> an attempt to get more information on this whole copywrite concept as it
>> pertains to TFT in general. The only additional question here regards
>> whether or not a copywrite must be defended. I don't think so, but I've
>> seen a couple of allusions to that concept and wanted to get to a concise
>> answer. Twould be nice if it were true, wouldn't it?

No, a copyright doesn't have to be defended to be in force -- noit like a 
trademark does. And no, it wouldn't be nice if that were true. Otherwise, 
the only people who could count on the protection of copyrights would be 
those with the means to vigorously defend them against all assault. As a 
creator, I believe in respecting the rights of other creators.

>> #3 - Last one, though its a multi-parter. I've seen $250K mentioned as the
>> asking price for the rights to TFT. Where exactly does this come from and
>> how current is it? It occurs to me if that is just HT's offer to SJ, it
>> may be that the price may be lower for someone OTHER than SJ or a
>> representative of his.

I'm sure Howard's offer to Steve Jackson was colored by Howard's 
unrelenting (and, to me, unjustified) dislike for Steve after SJ left 
Metagaming. As the former Line Editor for TFT (following Steve), I was as 
much in Howard Thompson's favor as anyone, I suppose. At least, we were 
always on good terms for the most part, and parted that way. (Though his 
decision to close Metagaming was a surprise to me when it came as much as 
anyone.) At the time, he offered to license TFT to my compatriots Dave 
Tepool, Greg Poehlein and myself for (as I recall) $100,000, plus a 
substantial royalty on every TFT item (existing or newly created). He 
also wanted all TFT-related items copyrighted in HIS name. That was a 
grossly unrealistic offer at the time, when $100,000 was a LOT more money 
and TFT was a frsh and viable brand name that everyone in the industry 
recognized. It would be even more so today, when TFT is remembered mostly 
by old-timers like myself, and there are a LOT more game systems out 
there.

>> A corollary to this question is what is a realistic
>> assessment of TFT's value? Would $10K or $25K be right? Mind you, this is
>> theoretical as I don't have this kind of money (not on my salary ...) but
>> I do have a reason for asking, as shall be seen. Would an offer to reprint
>> and pay HT a certain percent of the profit be reasonable? That may be a
>> stupid suggestion, but to me it makes sense; were I in his position, it
>> might be nice to make a little effortless pocket change at no risk by just
>> giving someone permission to reprint rule books and the like that are
>> otherwise not making any money whatsoever. Is there any record of someone
>> making an offer like this? Any clue as to how it turned out? The last part
>> isn't so much a question as an idea: while one person may not be able to
>> afford the rights, a small group may be able to. But that entirely depends
>> on how reasonable HT is, and does present complications of its own.

First of all, you'd have to find Howard Thompson. That seems to be the 
major stumbling block, as I don't know for certain of ANYONE who has 
talked to him in recent years. Many people have contacted me looking for 
him, and I have asked all of them to inform me if they spoke with him. 
None have done so. I have heard rumors of his whereabouts, but nothing I 
can substantiate or would care to pass along. There has been endless 
speculation about why Howard might want to just drop off the face of the 
earth (as far as the narrow little group of gaming hobbyists is concerned 
-- I doubt he moved to Darkest Africa and changed his name or anything) 
and forget the whole thing, but if anyone KNOWS, no one is telling me.

If Howard was willing to allow TFT to be reprinted and expanded for a 
percentage of the profits, he'd have done so long since. Certainly there 
were enough of us who would have jumped on such a proposition. It may 
seem logical that some money is better than no money, but Howard 
evidently didn't see it that way. There may be good reasons (from 
Howard's point of view) why this is so, but it is unlikely we will ever 
know.

Does this mean that anyone should feel free to reprint TFT (even posting 
the contents of the books freely on the WWWeb, as someone did some months 
ago for a short time)? No, I think that's wrong whether Howard comes 
forth to defend his property or not.

Greg Poehlein and I thought there was still room for a low-cost, 
easy-play and flexible personal combat board-based game system -- so 
eventually we had to create a new one. COMPACT COMBAT is out now and 
early sales are good. (And thanks, folks!) We think an expansion of this 
to a full RPG system is a good idea, too -- and we're doing just that 
with SIMPLY ROLEPLAYING, coming soon. If we'd had TFT to play with, we 
might not have done this at all. (And that would have been a shame, I 
suppose, as Greg's PlainLabel Game System is far more flexible than TFT 
-- which was written primarily for fantasy -- ever was.) But (in part) 
the unavailability of TFT pushed Greg to create something that filled the 
gap (and is -- we hope -- better because we had the example of TFT and 
other good ideas to learn from) and eventually prodded us to publish it 
ourselves.

But I think at this point, TFT should be left to the people like the 
subscribers to this list who love it and play it and keep it alive. No 
game is ever "dead" as long as you have a copy and enjoy playing. 
Commercial exploitation of TFT. however, is probably a dead end and 
reprinting or developing it (free or commercial) without Howard's 
permission is wrong on the face of it whether he rises from the shadows 
to bash you for it or not.

By the way, if you HAVE a good adventure pack playable with TFT that is 
worth offering commerically, it should be a snap to convert it to COMPACT 
COMBAT -- in which case I'd be interested in looking at it with an eye 
toward publishing it. (I'd LOVE to find people willing to write GOOD 
MicroQuest-style solitaires for COMPACT! Hint! Hint!) If the adventure is 
good in TFT, it would be good (and salable) in COMPACT, too.

(And yes, I've finally found a subject and an approach that I think would 
make a worthy successor to GrailQuest. It's in the preliminary planning 
stages only, though. Right now, I'm so busy keeping up the business end 
of stuff that I haven't had the time I'd like to create. But I *will* do 
it eventually, if just to prove to myself that GrailQuest wasn't a fluke. 
I like to *think* I'm a better writer now than when I started my career, 
and I plan to test that belief as soon as time allows.)

Guy McLimore / guymc@evansville.net
MicroTactix Games
http://microtactix.gamingoutpost.com
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