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Re: (TFT) Illusory Light?

From: <srydzews@ix.netcom.com>
>dan tulloh wrote:
> > It isnt real and therefore cannot have real 
> > 'side-effects.'  Illusory fire cannot set real
> > objects ablaze.  
> Well I agree about the fire, just as you can't make an
> illusionary bridge and walk across it.  I think that light
> is a different matter though.  Keep in mind that illusion
> is a 'creation' spell, not a 'thrown' spell cast on a 
> person or persons to directly affect their mind.  Something
> is being created, and that something has a location, it
> exists in a particular hex.  I think a large part of what
> is being 'created' is light.  

I agree.  Illusions do have some reality to them.  They are 
creations of a sort.  I don't see why it would be too powerful
for an illusion to cast real light.  The Light spell is IQ 7, 
costs 1 fST and lasts a full day.  An illusion of a fire hex
would cost 2fST, last only one minute and dissappear
if someone disbelieved it.  A real fire spell costs only 1fST,
lasts 12 turns, gives out both heat an light, can do real
damage, and can't be disbelieved.

> Remember also that the caster can see through the 'eyes'
> of an illusion, even if it moves around a corner or flies
> over a building.  It doesn't just exist in the minds of 
> onlookers, there is *something* there.  Now I know this
> isn't the same as 'does it produce real light', but I
> think it's indicative of the nature of illusions in TFT.
> > Fighters in combat with illusory creatures suffer no 
> > real damage but THINK they have. 
> Well, this is getting into a different argument, but 
> still, I disagree; it seems to me that it is real 
> damage.  The damage doesn't go away when the illusion 
> ends or is disbelieved, it is just as lethal as any 
> other damage, and it can be cured in exactly the same
> way as any other damage.  

I agree with this as well.  AM specifically states (pg. 6) 
that if you get hacked up by an illusion, your armor will
be undamaged, but you will be "hacked to bits".  The 
damage is real.  No matter how strongly you believe in
mind over matter, I refuse to believe that by shear force
of will you can create deep cuts an lacerations on your
body.  The illusion does real damage to you.

I've played in Rick's campaign for quite a while, and
he has (I think) a particularly good take on illusions.  
It differs somewhat from the official TFT version, but 
mostly it just clarifies things.  Perhaps he'll be good 
enough to post his 'Creations in TFT' article here or 
onto Ty's site (I'll gladly take care of the HTML part).

In his system images, illusions, obsticles and 
summoned creatures are all the same thing.  The 
difference is the magical energy required to keep them 
in the current dimention or plane.  Summoned creatures
require fatigue to keep them here, so they are very real
for their duration.  Obsticles work the same way, 
however because they are very simple, they require no
extra fST to keep them here once created.  Illusions
are weakly held here because no energy is being used
to keep them.  Anyone can break their ties to this plane
by disbelieving them.  They are quite real while they 
are here though.  The major differences are: they do real 
damage, they can carry and manipulate objects (up
to 50kg/hex), and they can only be certain specific things.
Images follow the same rule as illusions, except they are
even more weakly held on the current plane, hence they
are cheaper than illusions.

There is a new catagory of creation spells to handle all
of the weirdness that the AM version of illusion allowed
called 'Phantasmals'.  These are no longer real at all, but
they can be of *anything*.  These are very similar to the
AD&D illusions and the type of illusion that was being
discussed at the beginning of this thread.


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