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Re: (TFT) Re: Crossbows Are Too Powerful ?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Slocum" <slocum@skypoint.com>
To: <tft@brainiac.com>

> From: "Ty Beard" <tbeard@tyler.net>
> > From: "Stan" <srydzews@ix.netcom.com>
> > > As it is now, TFT longbows may be underpowered compared to real
> > > longbows, but the higher ROF makes up for it.
> >
> > Agreed -- if you're fighting lightly armored foes. But you cannot
> > replicate the superiority of English longbowmen over knights with TFT.
> > rules changes are an attempt to remedy this.
> The battle where this impression comes from is Agincourt, where several
> hundred longbowman defeated a few thousand heavy cavalry. But that's not
> the whole picture. The French cavalry were defeated by a combination of
> factors, including no unified command, bad terrain (lots of mud), and
> the archers in favor of more prestigious nobles, in addition to the
> effectiveness of the long bow. The long bow penetrated armor most often at
> weak points, like eyeslits and joints, not on the heavy plates. The key
> continuous concentrated fire, starting on horses and then on the
> heavy cavalry while they wallowed in the mud.

Well, there were other battles -- Crecy and Poitiers come to mind -- where
the same things happened. Though it should be said that the French had
similar command/control issues and dubious strategies in those battles as
well. But the bottom line is that archers were consistently able to defeat
knights. And there is ample testimony that longbows (and crossbows) could
penetrate heavy armor and cause severe wounds if not death. In TFT, longbows
are hopeless against an armored knight. Even with only chain and a tower
shield, the knight stops 5 points of damage. 6 points if you use half-plate.
7 for plate. And 8 for fine plate. So assuming a hit, a longbowman will
average the following average damage per target:

                Longbow              Crossbow
Armor     Avg Dmg               Avg Dmg
5 pts           1.7                         5.7
6 pts           1.0                         4.9
7 pts           0.5                         4.1
8 pts           0.17                       3.4

Hard to see a bowman lasting long at all, especially if you remember he
still has to hit his target. A moderately heavy armored ST12 knight will
need 12-24 average hits from a longbow before he drops.

Hvy Crossbows are much better -- and they can do more damage at the extreme
end of the scale. A moderately heavy armored ST12 knight will need about 3
average hits from a heavy crossbow before he drops.

A lightly armored ST12 warrior (say Cloth and small shield) will take 8.5
hits on average from a heavy crossbow and 4.5 hits on average from a

And my main point was really that the kinetic energy of crossbows and
longbows was the same and that there appears to be no justification for
making them vary so much in damage.

--Ty Beard
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