Re: (TFT) Some Thoughts on HTH

[raito@raito.com]

> First, the target of HTH combat is disarmed - he has to drop his shield and
> any weapons larger than a dagger. 

Which is stupid, because it's entirely possible to grapple while 
retaining your
weapons. I've done it. Also, there are entire treatises on how to grapple
specifically using various weapons. Most of the Fiore longsword vs. armour, a
bunch of German stuff (I don['t do much German), and all the 
close-combat plays
of Jeu de la Hache (poleaxe fighting) is grappling with a weapon. Also, the
European styles of serious 'wrestling' never go to ground. It's not safe to do
so in a real fight because the other guy always has friends. 

> Second, the target of HTH is thrown down with a "sacrifice throw" - he and
> his opponent both have to drop prone. 

Also stupid. As I point out above, in our real history, the object was to put
the other guy down and stay up yourself -- or break his arm. 

> Third, the target of HTH is put into a sort of limited pin, or pin-light - he
> is limited in his actions, and has to make a 4d vs Dx roll to escape. 

Not stupid. If you grapple, even incompetently, the other guy only has so much
he can do. 

> And all this without needing to make any roll to hit... 

Stupid. The sticking point is that it's always a simple 1D6 roll. 

> So, assuming that the rules for HTH combat - and especially for initiating
> HTH combat - need fixing, what should the fixes do?

Allow ST, DX, and Talents to affect it more than just giving the high 
DX figure
the option of diving in before being attacked. 

> o Should figures in HTH automatically fall prone? Or should this be an
> option, or optional attack result, rather than something that always 
> happens? (I
> think it should be.)

There ought to be an option. Something like the attacking figure (or defending
figure, for that matter) may attempt to take the fight to the ground, but it
won't automatically happen. But even if they both want to remain 
standing, they
could still fall. 

> o Should figures in HTH get +4 Dx to attack each other? Why is this
> necessary, or even desirable? (I don't see any point to it, so I've 
> dropped that bonus
> in my house rules.)

I think that rule is there more because a prone figure is +4DX to hit. I still
think that hitting into HTH for +4DX is fine, but I don't think that the
figures involved ought to be +4, but I keep thinking that there ought to be
some sort of adjustment. 

> o Should certain figures get a damage bonus in HTH as opposed to regular
> melee? (I want to tone down HTH rather than juicing it up, so I don't 
> allow any
> damage bonus for, e.g. a tiger, in HTH.)

The real question is: are there figures that do more damage when in the 
same hex
than if they are in adjacent hexes. I think that there are, but they get too
powerful when the rules for entering HTH are as they are. 

> o How easy should it be to initiate - or escape from - HTH? (Making it hard
> to initiate HTH makes the mechanic "brittle" IMO, so I don't use that as a
> balancing factor. It should be moderately hard to leave HTH, but not 
> as hard as in
> BTB TFT.)

Easy to attempt, moderate to succeed, hard to leave. It's generally 
pretty rough
to get someone off you once they have a hold of you, even if you have lots of
experience. 

Maybe something like you can attempt it at any time. If you're doing it 
from the
front, you get a bonus or penalty of the difference between DX. So if 
you have a
lower DX, it's even lower. If you have a higher DX, it's even higher. (Keeping
in mind that DX doesn't scale well beyond the mid-teens). 

If you come in from the side or rear, you still have to make a 3DX, 
just like an
attack, but no facing modifier. 

To leave, both roll 3DX. If the one leaving succeeds, and the other fails, HTH
is broken, and the escaping figure moves to an adjacent hex, in 
whatever facing
they choose. Otherwise, they're still in. Or possibly, make the escape attempt
their action, and if they blow it, the other guy gets a more-or-less free
attack. 

> o How easy should it be to hold on to shields and melee weapons in HTH? (I
> simply allow figures in HTH to hold on to their weapons.)

Yes. But there might be modifiers for having things in your hands. If you keep
your shield, you can still grapple, but not as well as if you had your ahnd
free. 

> o How easy (or possible) should it be to use regular melee weapons in HTH?
> (Here I get a little tricky with my house rules: A figure can use a regular
> melee weapon in HTH *if* he tried to leave HTH that turn and *if* his 
> opponent
> acted to keep him from doing so. Its more complex than that, however, with
> intersections with my opportunity attack rules.)

Quite possible. Perhaps some damage mod, though. Most of the melee weapons are
the sort that do damage from adjacent hexes. THen again, halfswording 
is pretty
effective for both attack and grapple, so I'm unsure. 

Just ideas, tear them apart at your leisure. 

Neil Gilmore
raito@raito.com
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