Re: (TFT) Some Thoughts on HTH

[raito@raito.com]

> circumstances. If both are trained...yikes. I'm interested in your fight. 
> Was it stand up or on the ground? I take it you're trained in some martial
> art. 

If both are trained, then either one loses the poker hand and it's over right
now, or it takes a long time. As for my experiences, they're from standing
positions. The medieval masters were right on that -- never choose to 
go to the
ground in a real fight. And yes, I have training. 

> initial stage of mobilization. On successive turns, the grappler could
> inflict his HTH damage based on strength with no armor, magical or
> otherwise, protection. If has has an arm and does the requisite damage, then
> the guy loses the use of his arm per the aimed shot rules. This should be a
> higher UC skill. 

But the aimed shot rules shouldn't have to apply. 

> Good question about regular weapon Talents. It's possible that, apart from
> knives, sticks, and the like, they would have very little effect once in
> HTH. They could play a part at the time entry into HTH is attempted. After I
> sent my post, I wondered to myself why a weapon talent wouldn't play a part
> in either entering HTH or refusing HTH. Not sure. For entering HTH, you
> might feignt with the weapon or attack the opponent's weapon to create an
> opening.  For refusing HTH, you are pretty much taking a swipe at the enemy
> as he approaches. 

Fiore de Liberi would disagree, and say that to even be competent with the
sword, one has to be able to grapple with it. 

> Very true, but still there's still significant training. One thing Bushido

But what constitutes 'significant' training? UC? Weapons Talents?

> Are you talking about breaking an arm through the armor or attacking the
> joint through rending or striking? Is this striking damage or rending

I'm talking about breaking it through manipulation, not striking. Really,
striking against significant armour just doesn't work. Read the medieval
masters. Armoured sword contests in the early 1500's are considred wrestling
matches, not sword fights. In fact, there's some ranting against rich 
young men
who never learn to parry, because their armour protects them to that 
degree. My
experiences tend to bear this out as true. 

That said, armour providing protection as it does in TFT is a game 
mechanic, not
tied to reality. So while discussing reality is nice, it must be 
translates into
game mechanics that work. Usually, that means sacrificing reality. 

> admit, while I have struck pads, wood, etc...I've never hit medieval metal
> armor. I think that it would take considerable skill IN A FIGHTING SITUATION
> to strike such heavy metal armor and transfer enough power to damage the
> person without harming their hand. 

Gauntlets protect more than you might think. Unlike most, I have struck armour
with weapons, and without. Yes, I wouldn't cause much damage at all striking
someone in armour with my hand. But I wouldn't bother to do so in order to do
damage. 

> I don't know. Sparring with modern light training gear is different from
> sparring without it. IIRC, aikijutsu was used by armored samurai, perhaps

I believe that kumiuchi was the term applied specifically to grappling in
armour. 

> sometimes in conjunction with a tanto. I don't think they tried to punch
> through armor of their opponent but used aiki to take down the enemy, rip
> joints and maybe finish him off with the tanto. So there is some truth to
> what you say. Maybe you're right, let the -dx adjustment take care of the
> decision to wear or not wear armor. 

There's also several accounts of samurai holding their opponent down with one
hand, and beheading them with the other. 

Neil Gilmore
raito@raito.com
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