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Re: (TFT) New Jobs: Knights

Yes, and certainly when putting together figures for a one-off battle or
coming up with NPC's I wouldn't want to hold myself to the standard of making
sure every knight had an IQ 11 and Courtly Graces.
This little excercise and this conversation has led me to think the "required
talents" might be thought of, by a GM, as "talents required to GET the job" as
opposed to "talents required to PERFORM the job". Most NPC's would get the job
of Knight entirely through inheritance...they wouldn't require any talents at
all..apart from Horsemanship. That sort of thinking works well for the
Knight...not so sure about the real Professions...example follows...
Sir Gilbert begins his Squireship (is that a word?) at ST 11 DX 13 IQ 8. He
begins with Sword, Polearm, Shield, and Horsemanship. He is studying Charisma,
New Followers, and Courtly Graces (is this even possible? I'm not sure whether
you can start with "open" IQ points...but I've always kind of assumed you
can). Eventually, through experience, he places three extra points into IQ,
and is now a 35-point character at ST 11 DX 13 IQ 11. His fine courtly manner,
natural charisma, and ability to command attention all impress Duke Cherard
during campaign. Duke Cherard's nephew was just killed in a Tournament,
leaving his wife a widow, his son fatherless, and his estate empty. The Duke
is so impressed with  Sir Gilbert that he offers him the job as custodian of
his Nephew's land and tenants as well as of his nephew's son, until such a
time as that boy is old enough to inherit the land himself. Sir Gilbert has
just gotten the job of Landed Knight.
 Had he ignored his lessons in Courtly Graces and Charisma, his uncouth manner
may have offended the Duke, who would have looked elsewhere for a custodian.
On the other hand, his valor in battle may have still impressed the Duke, who
might have offered him a position in his household troops, instead.
By way of counter-example, maybe Sir Hawthorne, as vile, greedy and ugly a man
as you've ever had the displeasure of meeting, began his squireship much the
same way as Sir Gilbert. However, Sir Hawthorne put all his experience into
strength and dexterity, emerging with ST 13, DEX 14, IQ 8, Sword,
Polearm, Axe/Hammer, Shield, Horsemanship. He learned very little as a squire
other than beating up servants and insulting girls. He offends everyone he
meets, and is therefore unable to secure employment. He returns to his
family's estate, however, and immediately murders his father and brothers,
thereby securing his inheritance  and ensuring his future as a landed knight.
Such a path has nothing to do with a "job" per se and is perfectly legitimite
for an NPC. For a PC, however, this path would have to be role-played out, it
couldn't just be rolled up on the job table.
I'm not saying that's how you SHOULD think of jobs, just proposing it as one
possibility of how to think about them, since when played the way described in
ITL they're basically just in-game perks. The other way, and the way I thought
before this discussion, is to take them literally...if you don't have the
required skills you can't perform the job. So every mercenary captain is
described as per ITL, every physician, every laborer, etc., etc.
And which also leads me to question "New Followers", exactly as you question
it, since it doesn't really come to play in Sir Gilbert's descriptive
paragraph above. "Charisma" certainly makes sense. Perhaps simply strike "New
Followers" from the landed knight requirements and reduce the pay accordingly
(since the pay seems too high anyway). And by this way of thinking, yes, not
every nobleman has Courtly Graces, but if you're low-born, you'd better have
it if you hope for advancement. A baron or duke can be a boor, but you can't.

--- On Fri, 7/25/08, <pvk@oz.net> wrote:

From: <pvk@oz.net>
Subject: Re: (TFT) New Jobs: Knights
To: tft@brainiac.com
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 6:50 PM

Leadership... I failed a memory check, apparently. Sorry, I don't see it in
ITL either - I must've been thinking of the Leadership skill in GURPS.

I guess I see Courtly Graces, Charisma and New Followers as clearly very
but not required for knightly stations, but of course we're mainly playing
with definitions here. One could define that the jobs work that way if you
those talents, but that they can be held without them, just with

I don't see a landed knight needing to have marked personal skills (New
Followers) in order to successfully get people to do things for him - in many
cases I'd expect someone just needs to say "Sir Bob requires you to
X...". The cases where that doesn't work would be where Talents would
make him more effective. But I'm being picky and detail-oriented here, as I
often am.

Courtly Graces... to me represents effective use of aristocratic arts, but
every aristocrat is effective - sometimes they just have aristocratic airs
habits but they may still hold high positions due to other talents or
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