Re: (TFT) Pirates! ships

["Jay Carlisle" <Jay_Carlisle@charter.net>]

Sailing Ship Hull Timbers
A. The pieces which compose the keel, to be securely bolted together, and 
clinched.

B. The stern-post, which is tenented into the keel, and connected to it by a 
knee, G. It supports the rudder, and unites the sides of the ship abaft.

C. The stem, which is composed of two pieces scarsed together: it is an 
arching piece of timber, into which the ship's sides are united forwards

D. The beams, which are used to support the decks, and confine the sides to 
their proper distance.

E. The false post, which serves to augment the breadth of the stern-post, 
being also tenented into the keel.

F. The knees, which connect the beams to the sides.

G. The knee of the stern-post, which unites it to the keel.

H. The apron, in two pieces: it is sayed on the inside of the stem, to 
support the scarf thereof; for which reason, the Scarf of the former must be 
at some distance from that of the latter.

I. The stemson, in two pieces, to reinforce the scarf of the apron.

K. The wing transom: it is sayed across the stern-post, and bolted to the 
head of it, having its two ends let into the fashion-pieces.

L. The deck-transom, parallel to the wing-transom, and secured in the same 
manner.

M. N. The lower transoms.

O. The fashion-piece on one side; the heel of it is connected with the 
dead-wood, and the head is secured to the wing-transom.

P. The top-timbers, or upper parts of the fashion-pieces..

Q. The knees, which fashion the transoms to the ship's side.

R. The breast-hooks, in the hold; they are sayed across the stem, to 
strengthen the fore-part of the ship.

S. The breast-hooks of the deck: they are placed immediately above the 
former, and used for the same purposes.

T. The rudder, which is joined to the stern-post by hinges, and serves to 
direct the ship's course.

U. The floor timbers; they are laid across the keel, to which they are 
firmly bolted.

V. The lower futtocks, and

W. The top-timbers, which are all united to the floor-timbers, forming a 
frame .that reaches from the keel to the top of the side.

X. The pieces which compose the kelson: they are scarsed together like the 
keel pieces, and placed over the middle of the. floor-timbers, upon each of 
which they are scored about an inch and a half, as exhibited by the notches.

Y. The several pieces of the knee of the head; the lower part of which is 
sayed to the stem; the heel being scarsed to the fore-foot.

Z. The cheeks of the head or knees, which connect the head to the bows on 
each side.

&. The standard of the head which fastens it to the stem.

a. The catheads, one of which lies on each bow, projecting outwards like the 
arm of a crane. They are used to draw the anchors up to the top of the side 
without injuring the bow.

b. The bits, to which the cable is fastened when the ship rides at anchor.

c. The false post, in two pieces, sayed to the fore part of the stern-post.

d. The side-counter-timbers, which terminate the ship abaft within the 
quarter-gallery.

e. Two pieces of dead wood, one afore, and another abaft, sayed on the keel.

(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/sail-hull-timbers.htm)

See also http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/sail-masts.htm

Determining wood type is a bit more problematic and seems to depend heavily 
on the location the ship was constructed in, not to mention the time period 
and information tends to be a bit general.
I've found reference to white oak and yellow pine being used for framing 
larger ships.

When looking at wood characteristics for common north American timber for 
building purposes I noticed that weaker, softer woods (looking @ bending 
stress @ prop. Limit) are used for walls, middle strength woods are used for 
joists, and the stronger, harder woods are used for flooring.

Wood is strongest when compressed parallel to its grain.
Bending stresses for the softest, weakest woods are below 5000 psi.
Woods suitable for joists come in around 10,000 psi and the hardest woods I 
currently have info on are under 15,000 psi.

White oak and yellow pine are both listed as suitable for joists w/strengths 
of around 9000 - 11,000 psi).
My guess would be that many wood types suitable for joists in housing might 
be used in ship construction.

As far a dimensions.
http://www.craftsmanspace.com/free-books/handbook-of-ship-calculations-construction-and-operation.html

Wikipedia says the ten tallest species are;
Coast Redwood (Sequoia sempervirens)
Australian Mountain-ash (Eucalyptus regnans)
Coast Douglas-fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii)
Sitka Spruce (Picea sitchensis)
Giant Sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum)
Tasmanian Blue Gum (Eucalyptus globulus)
Manna Gum (Eucalyptus viminalis)
Shorea faguetiana
Alpine Ash (Eucalyptus delegatensis)
Noble Fir (Abies procera)
Heights are between about 280 to 380 ft. for the record holders.
I have redwood and spruce listed as weak (6000 to 7000 psi) and Douglas-fir 
listed as strong (9000 - 11,000 psi).
North American ash species range from fair to very strong so I don't know 
what to think of the eucalyptus.

http://www.scielo.cl/pdf/maderas/v11n1/art06.pdf

When raising trees to be harvested on a 10 year cycle they are spaced about 
12 feet apart (~3 Melee hexes) and produce about 300 trees per acre.
Virgin forest would have significantly fewer trees per acre.

To get the solid content of a log 12 ft in length multiply the square of the 
diameter by 0.7854.
Take 4/5ths of the solid content to allow for the slab when sawing inch 
boards with 19th century saws.

Lots of hemp for rope and canvas with some flax able to make sail canvas.
Because of this, species like the scots pine can serve double duty by 
producing framing timber and using the waste for tar that pretty much 
covered the ship and rigging. Weathering rates of rope, canvas, and wood 
will be important for maintenance purposes, both Downtime and storm-type.

The second Victory (still in service) is a bit late from the mid eighteenth 
century but Wikipedia says;

"Once the frame had been constructed, it was normal to cover the ship up and 
leave it for several months to season. However, the end of the Seven Years' 
War meant that she remained in this condition for nearly three years, which 
helped her subsequent longevity. Work restarted in autumn 1763 and she was 
finally launched on 7 May 1765, having cost #63,176 and 3 shillings[2] 
(present day #7.06 million)[3] and used around 6000 trees, 90% of which were 
oak and the remainder elm, pine and fir, as well as a small quantity of 
Lignum Vitae."

Hee hee hee., I know Lignum Vitae from my work putting a more medieval 
environment back on 'a Riding or two' of north east England.
6000 trees is about 20 acres by farmed measure or 1/32 of a square mile 
clear-cut harvested at minimum which is 1/1152 of a Township in the Section, 
Township, Range survey system for legal description of land as property.
Then I found this looking for plank discriptions.
http://www.morsko-prase.hr/2006/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8665&Itemid=196
"The normal list of supplies required to build a ship of the line would 
consist of almost a hundred acres of oak forest, well over 5000 carefully 
selected mature oak trees which were mostly obtained from the weald forest 
of Kent and Sussex and the remainder of the timber required was elm, pine 
and fir which once stored would have been left seasoning for several years. 
Many of these massive oak timbers particular for the outboard planks were 
bent to the correct shape by being placed over a pit with fire underneath, 
water was then poured over the timber and heavy weights placed along the 
sections of the timber until it reached the correct curvature. The thickness 
of the hull at the waterline on the Victory is approximately 2 feet (0.6m) 
thick.
Seven large elm trunks were used for the keel and around 3000 feet of fir 
and spruce were required for the decks, masts & yard arms as this type of 
timber was light and very supple. The bottom section (lower masts) were made 
from 5 to 7 trees which were bound together with iron hoops. The masts used 
27 miles of rigging and carried four acres of canvas for the sails and 2 
tons of iron and copper nails and bolts. These bolts which were passed right 
through the carefully shaped beams and sophisticated joints had the ends 
clenched over washers, all this basically held the whole ship together."

So it takes 5 times the area of less managed forest to provide the timber 
for a first rate ship of the line and this gets interesting because apart 
from the seven large elms required for a ship this size there are some other 
special trees that were needed.

"Certain sections of a ship framework the size of the Victory had to be made 
from a single piece of oak, therefore oak trees with massive dimensions were 
very much sort after. The oak tree required for the 30 feet high 'stern 
post' which took some of the greatest stresses of the ship were just one 
such tree, as stern posts made from joined up timbers would soon fail.
Other prized oak trees were those with 'compass timbers' which had grown 
over the years with stout curved branches which enabled the knees and clamps 
to also be made from one piece. One of the most difficult of these trees to 
find was the timber to be used for the wing transom, this had to be made 
from an uncommonly widely forked stem mature oak tree."

Now sending a party of combat guys to protect the.
Talent; SHIPBUILDER (2). Ability (given time) to construct any type of 
water-going vessel, Prerequisite: SEAMANSHIP.
dude into the Huldre Forest past Landmaster Hall to find just the right oak 
for the wing transom in his latest design is an interesting adventure and 
works on a few levels at once.
A party of adventurers are getting a more traditional PoV type scenario.
A builder is getting a key component for a project.
A commander is getting a piece of equipment to add to their force.
And the economy is being furthered because all of this material moving about 
and being processed comes out of the projects budget including the pay for 
the players little adventure.

Rules of thumb to determine the deck scantlings:
The thickness of the decking affects how strong the hull is, and is directly 
related to how thick the skin of the hull itself is, which is of course 
related to how large the vessel is, the kind of work it is expected to do, 
and the kind of weather it may reasonably be expected to endure. While a 
Naval Engineer or Architect may have precise methods of determining what the 
scantlings should be, traditional builders used previous experiences and 
simpler rules-of-thumb to determine how thick the deck should be built.
The numbers derived by these forumlae gives a rough number for determining 
the average thickness of materials based on some crude hull measurements. 
Below the waterline the thickness should be approximately 115% of the 
result, while upper topsides and decks might be reduced to 85% of the 
result.
In wood - For plank thickness in inches, LOA (Length OverAll) and Beam are 
measured in feet. For plank thickness in mm, LOA and Beam are measured in 
meters.
Plank thickness in inches = <math>{\sqrt{LOA}+Beam \over 16}<math>
Plank thickness in mm = <math>[\sqrt{LOA*3.28}+(Beam*3.28)*1.58]<math>
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Deck_(ship)
About 1 inch planks for Victory?

Conan the ST 30 Barbarian would likely have an easier time punching out of a 
wood framed house that he would punching through the hull of the Victory, 
even in dry dock.
If I'm seeing this right it'd be two >1 inch thick planks separated by about 
22" at the waterline for Victory's hull, or about half a Melee hex thick.

Also of note;

Wood is also going to be under demand for housing in areas where it's common 
and upping the population to up the number of loggers doesn't necessarily 
create more wood for ships.
Of course, in milder climates planking for housing can be sawn thinner than 
that needed for a ship of the line but the slab limits how thin a cut that 
can be achieved, (and paper walls can be better than no walls when 
considering privacy).

Of course, round isn't the only kindda shot that can be packed into a cannon 
or similar gun piece.
Actually, in the same way that the farmer with the pretty daughter could 
have been shooting rock salt so too could the merchant boat carrying barrels 
of nails.

Ship hulls are efficient but not necessary.
Timber barons up here in the pacific northwest actually made giant rafts of 
logs and floated them out to sea and down to the Los Angles area to supply 
the housing down there for the first decade or two.
I suppose one would have to board one of these to take it.
That modeler had this to say;
"All the time, expense and difficulties involved with trying to build a ship 
the size of the victory was one of the reasons in times of war it made more 
sense to try and take the enemies ships with boarding parties and keep them 
as prizes, rather than sinking them."

A fantasy wood that has a number of desirous properties is likely to go the 
way of the Dodo.
If the wood in elf trees is soooo much better in every measure than anything 
else then unless elf wood trees are by far the most common trees in the 
world the elves better be VERY protective of their groves.
Kindda like, when there are potions out there that require components from 
human bodies the human graveyard keeper better be very tough the elves will 
pretty much need a fixed perimeter and that requires a large population for 
a large area.
You can't get Burma teak for shipbuilding anymore.

Ughhh, it's almost 2:30 in the p.m.
I know better than to check my e-mail when I'm busy lol.
That ought to be enough to build a ship that won't get big holes punched in 
it conceptually at least.
All this wood is fine, and it does help put floors in the Keep, but a perch 
is 16.5 ft by 1.5 ft by 1 ft making 24.75 cubic feet of stone so a wall 16" 
thick, 7' high and 84' long has about 31 and two thirds perches of stone, or 
784 cubic feet...
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