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Re: (TFT) Mars - Rick was too hot.
Hey Rick!
I didn't mean to say they would be living on the surface! I left out the
part of the sentence that said, " ... and would most-likely be present in
subsurface water." I'm familliar with the sulfur-reducing bacteria, and the
effect of the oxygen-catastrophe on iron metabolizing bacteria, but I hadn't
read about the disintergration of the Titanic! That's really cool. The
recent discovery of anaerobes under the antarctic ice sheet, and the
hypothesis of H2O2 taking the place of water in life processes seem like
they could be applicable for Martian denizens. Maybe there's a TFT angle
here. Sort of Melee meets Snits' Revenge, with hapless astronauts taking
the place of the Bolotomi....
Denis
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Rick Smith <rsmith@lightspeed.ca> wrote:
> Hi Denis,
> Pretty much correct. The types of bacteria known
> as prokaryotes or archaea, evolve to take advantage
> of chemicals in their environment. For example, I
> saw a documentary about the Titanic and it showed
> bacteria breaking down the iron in the ship. They
> reduced iron from a 2 oxidation state to a 3
> oxidation state, gaining an electron in the process.
>
> If they can get an electron or proton free, they
> can live. Thus they form the extremophiles, which
> can live in places thought impossible for life.
>
> On Mars, the perchlorates certainly have enough
> energy in their chemical bonds to support such life,
> but there is (except briefly) no liquid water on the
> surface and the surface is sterilized by UV light.
>
> At the Mars Society convention new evidence that
> was shown to the public about the Allen Hills
> meteor suggests very strongly that there was life
> on Mars 3 billion years ago. If life existed then,
> it likely still exists now underground near geo-
> thermal energy sources.
>
> Anyway, I agree with everything you said except
> that they would live on perchlorates. The surface
> dust is a very hard place for bacteria to survive.
>
> Warm regards, Rick.
>
>
> On Tue, 2011-09-08 at 08:57 -0400, Denis DesHarnais wrote:
> > My understanding was that the potential liquid water may be a form of
> > brine. Perchlorates have been detected on the surface, as have other
> > salts. This would lower the freezing point of water considerably, as
> well
> > as provide potential organisms with a non-photosynthetic means of
> producing
> > energy. Does that sound right?
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 5:16 AM, Rick Smith <rsmith@lightspeed.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > I just got back from the Mars Society convention
> > > in Dallas. (I was invited to give a talk there.)
> > > If any one has a question on Mars, I'm a fair
> > > expert.
> > >
> > > Boy was it hot in Dallas! The high ways were
> > > built with expansion joints but it was so hot,
> > > that they were not enough and the highways were
> > > buckling. They have _never_ experienced heat
> > > like this before.
> > >
> > > Warm regards, Rick.
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2011-04-08 at 16:07 -0400, Joey Beutel wrote:
> > > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Jay Carlisle wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > NASA announces a big discovery about Mars press conference at 11:00
> > > > > in the
> > > > > a.m. my time and nobody in the u.s. press gets to it before I can
> > > > > get it
> > > > > from the BBC.
> > > > > Not even NASA's own websites.
> > > > > Sigh...
> > > > > Anyway;
> > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14408928
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Flowing water on Mars...
> > > > > ...
> > > > > Flowing water?
> > > > > ...
> > > > > Each "summer"?
> > > > > ...
> > > > > Duhhhhhhhh...
> > > > > <Scratches bleeding hole in scalp>
> > > > > How does the water get up the highlands to flow down into the
> > > > > "valleys"?
> > > > > There's not really weather...
> > > > > Am I really that stupid?
> > > >
> > > > No, but there is weather on Mars. Even a "sand storm" in winter (when
> > > > the water is all frozen) could move the ice around.
> > > >
> > > > Also, last time I checked they think there are conventional storms on
> > > > Mars as well....
> > > > > ...
> > > > > As this is a speculative matter and not a issue of future planing
> > > > > I'm gonna
> > > > > take the liberty of assuming I'm not completely dain-bramaged and
> > > > > that the
> > > > > water in the highlands could end up being quite an issue.
> > > > > Wikipedia is saying;
> > > > > "Current models of the planet's interior imply a core region about
> > > > > 1,480 km
> > > > > in radius, consisting primarily of iron with about 14 17% sulfur.
> > > > > This iron
> > > > > sulfide core is partially fluid, and has twice the concentration of
> > > > > the
> > > > > lighter elements than exist at Earth's core. The core is surrounded
> > > > > by a
> > > > > silicate mantle that formed many of the tectonic and volcanic
> > > > > features on
> > > > > the planet, but now appears to be inactive. The average thickness
> of
> > > > > the
> > > > > planet's crust is about 50 km, with a maximum thickness of 125
> km.[27]
> > > > > Earth's crust, averaging 40 km, is only one third as thick as Mars
> > > > > crust,
> > > > > relative to the sizes of the two planets."
> > > > > So until I get a better idea of exotectonics the understanding I
> > > > > have so far
> > > > > says that it might not be geological activity that's circulating
> the
> > > > > water.
> > > > > I've got a bastardized Velikovsky-like idea ("Velikovsky would
> > > > > rebuild the
> > > > > science of celestial mechanics to save the literal accuracy of
> ancient
> > > > > legends") that has Mars being hit "ballistically" by an object that
> > > > > strikes
> > > > > it like a bullet hits an apple.
> > > > > Phobos, Demos, a bunch of meteors so the Eskimo's can have a few
> metal
> > > > > harpoon tips... and a bunch of water splashed outta the ocean basin
> > > > > up onto
> > > > > the highlands to get frozen in pretty quickly as the "bullet" took
> the
> > > > > atmosphere with it...
> > > > > Great.
> > > > > Now I'm back to projectiles in a rough vacuum at 1/3rd earth
> > > > > gravity...
> > > > > Of course if their teraforming via greenhouse gas emitters
> > > > > (factories even)
> > > > > then over time the friction is gonna increase but I'd rather carve
> > > > > giant
> > > > > chuncks of heavy gas out where its frozen and lob snowballs at Mars
> > > > > till she
> > > > > has a little blanket.
> > > > > Maybe even park Pluto on her.
> > > > > I'm not a very patient creator... I like to muck about in things...
> > > > > part
> > > > > seas and whatnot from time to time.
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