Re: (TFT) More long bow reflections

["Edward Kroeten" <ekroeten@farmersagent.com>]

<I don't buy that argument, either. But there are those who are still
   looking for a verifiable account of a man notable enough to be named in
   the accounts of the battle being killed by arrows through his armour,
   rather than through the gaps, open visor, etc.>



 Read some of the accounts by Sir Andrew Trollope, he personally saw arrow
penetrate armor.  Also look up the Wars of the Roses where at Towton Trollope
was killed many knights were brought down by arrows.  I will have to go with
the multiple first hand accounts over mythbuster stuff here.











   Edward Kroeten
     Farmers Agent
     39899 Balentine Drive Suite 200
     Newark, CA 94560
     Phone 510-579-0135
     Fax 510-438-6875
     Website: www.kroeteninsurance.com













 ------ Original Message ------
   Received: 07:43 AM PDT, 08/29/2013
   From: raito@raito.com
   To: tft@brainiac.com
   Subject: Re: (TFT) More long bow reflections




     > Those test you are not convinced by are at 250 yards if you are
quoting
       > Matheus Bane which is long range for a longbow. The kills and
penetration

       The tests I am not convinced by are at much shorter ranges than that.
But
       they are done by persons who have neither the historical background to
       know what they are really testing nor the scientific background to do
a
       proper test. Admittedly, I can't say that I know enough by myself
(well,
       maybe the testing itself), either, but I do know enough of the right
       people that I think I could make a better test, given the time and
money
       to enlist them. Just as an example, I'd probably use someone like Ric
       Furrer for the materials end of it. He has a lot of contacts in that
area.
       Another acquaintance does an awful lot of scientific sorts of failure
       tests which have to be absolutely rigorous. Weapons-wise there's guys
like
       Chris Poor at the Oakeshoot, and even though he's more of a sword guy
he
       knows who's who for darned near everything. The guys whose knowledge
       filters down to me are pretty good in their fields.

       > do. They also argue that plate armor was proof against arrow because
the
       > Italians in armor were not penetrated nearly as much with their
armor.
       > The
       > big problem with that logic is that the Italian archers were
generally
       > inferior (French mercenaries said this when they were in the Wars of
       > Lombardy
       > 1425-1453) because they had only fought other Italian in a series of
       > internal
       > struggles and there equipment wasn't anywhere in the same pull
weights or
       > quality as English bows

       I don't buy that argument, either. But there are those who are still
       looking for a verifiable account of a man notable enough to be named
in
       the accounts of the battle being killed by arrows through his armour,
       rather than through the gaps, open visor, etc.

       > On your last point I think we have been mainly talking about French
and
       > English battles so the Gentry were swordsmen and yeoman and lower
class
       > were
       > archers. Now if you want to talk Mongol mounted archers and Japanese
       > archers
       > they fought a much different type of foe, not generally full plate
mounted
       > cav.

       They certainly weren't fighting against mounted lance charges. But the
       assertion (sword equals nobility and bow doesn't) is often taken out
of
       context, which is why I made my statement.

       Still, I wouldn't entirely count out the Japanese when it comes to
talking
       about archery in general.

       Neil Gilmore
       raito@raito.com
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