Re: (TFT) More long bow reflections

[Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com>]

Joel please listen: the War of the Roses is not the movie with danny
devito...


On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Edward Kroeten
<ekroeten@farmersagent.com>wrote:

> <I don't buy that argument, either. But there are those who are still
>    looking for a verifiable account of a man notable enough to be named in
>    the accounts of the battle being killed by arrows through his armour,
>    rather than through the gaps, open visor, etc.>
>
>
>
>  Read some of the accounts by Sir Andrew Trollope, he personally saw arrow
> penetrate armor.  Also look up the Wars of the Roses where at Towton
> Trollope
> was killed many knights were brought down by arrows.  I will have to go
> with
> the multiple first hand accounts over mythbuster stuff here.
>
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>    Edward Kroeten
>      Farmers Agent
>      39899 Balentine Drive Suite 200
>      Newark, CA 94560
>      Phone 510-579-0135
>      Fax 510-438-6875
>      Website: www.kroeteninsurance.com
>
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>  ------ Original Message ------
>    Received: 07:43 AM PDT, 08/29/2013
>    From: raito@raito.com
>    To: tft@brainiac.com
>    Subject: Re: (TFT) More long bow reflections
>
>
>
>
>      > Those test you are not convinced by are at 250 yards if you are
> quoting
>        > Matheus Bane which is long range for a longbow. The kills and
> penetration
>
>        The tests I am not convinced by are at much shorter ranges than
> that.
> But
>        they are done by persons who have neither the historical background
> to
>        know what they are really testing nor the scientific background to
> do
> a
>        proper test. Admittedly, I can't say that I know enough by myself
> (well,
>        maybe the testing itself), either, but I do know enough of the right
>        people that I think I could make a better test, given the time and
> money
>        to enlist them. Just as an example, I'd probably use someone like
> Ric
>        Furrer for the materials end of it. He has a lot of contacts in that
> area.
>        Another acquaintance does an awful lot of scientific sorts of
> failure
>        tests which have to be absolutely rigorous. Weapons-wise there's
> guys
> like
>        Chris Poor at the Oakeshoot, and even though he's more of a sword
> guy
> he
>        knows who's who for darned near everything. The guys whose knowledge
>        filters down to me are pretty good in their fields.
>
>        > do. They also argue that plate armor was proof against arrow
> because
> the
>        > Italians in armor were not penetrated nearly as much with their
> armor.
>        > The
>        > big problem with that logic is that the Italian archers were
> generally
>        > inferior (French mercenaries said this when they were in the Wars
> of
>        > Lombardy
>        > 1425-1453) because they had only fought other Italian in a series
> of
>        > internal
>        > struggles and there equipment wasn't anywhere in the same pull
> weights or
>        > quality as English bows
>
>        I don't buy that argument, either. But there are those who are still
>        looking for a verifiable account of a man notable enough to be named
> in
>        the accounts of the battle being killed by arrows through his
> armour,
>        rather than through the gaps, open visor, etc.
>
>        > On your last point I think we have been mainly talking about
> French
> and
>        > English battles so the Gentry were swordsmen and yeoman and lower
> class
>        > were
>        > archers. Now if you want to talk Mongol mounted archers and
> Japanese
>        > archers
>        > they fought a much different type of foe, not generally full plate
> mounted
>        > cav.
>
>        They certainly weren't fighting against mounted lance charges. But
> the
>        assertion (sword equals nobility and bow doesn't) is often taken out
> of
>        context, which is why I made my statement.
>
>        Still, I wouldn't entirely count out the Japanese when it comes to
> talking
>        about archery in general.
>
>        Neil Gilmore
>        raito@raito.com
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