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Re: [TFT Thail] Re: (TFT) New TFT Talent: Shield Wall. VERSION 2.
I know this talent's original raison d'etre was to handle Viking shield
walls, etc.. But there's another scenario that's kind of related: the
king's bodyguards standing either side of him with a shield. Maybe it
should handle that as well. In which case the other person doesn't need a
shield and facing is irrelevant.
In this scenario you can have a rule like:
Figure A provides shield protection to Figure B against Figure C if:
* A has a shield, and Shield Wall talent
* C is in A's shielded hexes
* A and B are adjacent
"Shielded" means front, until and unless someone writes rules otherwise.
How do you handle jabs? The ones through hexes are easy, just treat the
last hex before the target as the source. But what about along the edge?
Roll a die? Come to think of it, what is the preferred rule for a jab
passing between front and side hexsides?
--
David
On 12 February 2015 at 11:21, Rick Smith rick_ww@lightspeed.ca [thail] <
thail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Hi Neil,
> Good points. I should have said in my rules you needed to have
> one of your front hexes touch the hex in front of the next person
> in the wall, or their own hex.
>
> With the rule written this way, figures spaces with a hex between
> them automatically would not qualify.
>
> The rules should also specify that the next person in the shield
> wall can not be behind you or directly in front of you.
>
> I do not think your shield wall rules should allow figures to
> make a wall with six figures around a central hex. I think that
> their facings as so different that the shields could not cover each
> other well. In other words, I think that if the rules specify that
> everyone on a shield wall should have the same facing, then
> this is an advantage.
>
> These rules need to specify what happens if someone in a
> shield wall does NOT have this talent. John newbie, is fresh from
> the farm and is given an ax and told to stand in a wall. He knows
> how to use a shield but not the shield wall talent. What happens?
> Likely he simply does not transmit the bonus to the men on each
> side of him.
>
> I am tempted to say that the shields in a wall, protect one less point
> than their rated value. So a small shield protects 1–1 damage
> So large shields would protect one, agis protect 2, tower shields
> would protect 3 or more. But then again, I might say tower shields
> are too big for shield wall tactics.
>
> David Bofinger made the point that shields should likely only
> protect the man on your left. Sensible as far as realism goes. If
> that is the case, the rule above about shields doing one point less
> than their rated value are likely not needed.
>
> Don suggests that there should be some penalty for attacking
> out of shield wall. This is true enough... a –2 adj DX penalty w
ould
> likely be realistic. Worth the trouble? On the other hand, part of
> the talent would be training on how to attack out of a shield wall,
> so maybe this is not needed.
>
> Peter suggests that shield walls make you harder to hit. Say,
> for argument, a –2 adj DX adjustment if you are part of the wall?
> In many ways I like this better. I would rather not tie them into the
> Thail parry rules, because: 1) few people use them, and 2) they
> are already complex enough.
>
>
> So here is my revised version:
>
> IQ 8 Shield Wall (1) co-requisite shield.
> General description: people with shields who all have this talent
> may share damage protection from people to either side of them
> when they form a solid line.
> People in a line with you can not be in your rear hex, nor the hex
> directly in front of you. You may only get one bonus per side from
> your left or right.
> If two figures with this talent have 'overlapping' front hexes, each may
> share one point of their shield's damage protection. If you have a
> man on each side of you, (each with this talent), you may get a point
> of protection from each.
> 'Overlapping' in this context means if the attack comes thru a shared
> front hex OR if you are standing in a front hex of the man beside
> you (who is part of the shield wall, with this talent). Note that you
> must be adjacent AND have the same facing.
>
>
> These are not final rules. Things I am thinking about are:
> -- Protect the people to right and left, or just left?
> -- Protect full value of the shield, just one point, or between these?
> -- Exclude tower shields as too unwieldy?
> -- Peter's idea for making you harder to hit, rather than just stopping
> more hits.
>
> I welcome more comments.
>
> Warm regards, Rick.
>
>
> On 2015-02-11, at 2:39 PM, raito@raito.com wrote:
>
> > Hi Rick,
> >
> > You have a good concern about the hex grain, but I don't think it makes
a
> > difference in this case. You may want to define overlapping better.
> 'front
> > hex of the man beside you' probably isn't specific enough. I probably
> > didn't write as good a description of my version as I could have.
> >
> > The figure receiving the bonus has to be adjacent to the figures giving
> > the bonus, and a front hex of the figure getting the bonus must be a
> front
> > hex of the figure giving the bonus. A maximum of 2 figures can give a
> > bonus to any figure.
> >
> > If you don't make the figures be adjacent, then you can end up with
> > figures spaced apart getting bonuses.
> >
> > Note that I don't require the figures to face the same direction. You c
an
> > form a defensive circle using my version. But if you have 2 figures bac
k
> > to back, they won't get a bonus (their front hexes don't overlap).
> >
> > As far as maximum bonus goes, I used the value of the shield. In a more
> > complex world, I'd have the figures giving the bonus only get their
> > shield's value, and let them spread it out over however many figures th
ey
> > wished. But essentially otherwise unarmoured lines of battle with large
> > shields gave each figure 6 points of shield each. It also made it
> > practically mandatory for attackers to take someone out, whereupon the
> > bonuses start to shrink, and the line can be exploited (much like my SC
A
> > experiences, and what seems to happen in such battles from the historic
al
> > accounts). Break the line ad you win. Don't, and the other guy wins.
> >
> > In any case, it's nice to see that you liked it.
> >
> > Neil Gilmore
> > raito@raito.com
> >
> >> Hi guys,
> >> I am adapting a new talent by Neil Gilmore for possible use in my
> >> campaign
> >> that I saw on the TFT mailing list and would like your thoughts.
> >>
> >>
> >> IQ 8 Shield Wall (1) co-requisite shield.
> >> If two figures with this talent have 'overlapping' front hexes, each m
ay
> >> share
> >> one point of their shield's damage protection. If you have a man on
> >> each
> >> side of you, (each with this talent), you may get a point of protectio
n
> >> from each.
> >> 'Overlapping' in this context means if the attack comes thru a shared
> >> front
> >> hex OR if you are standing in the front hex of the man beside you who
is
> >>
> >> part of the shield wall.
> >>
> >>
> >> Some thoughts of my own.
> >> -- Currently this protects only one hit per shield. A more powerful
> >> (realistic?)
> >> version would protect you the amount of the size of the shield (everyo
ne
> >> must
> >> carry the same shield size). So if your shield wall had everyone
> >> carrying
> >> large shields, the man in the middle would get –4 damage from
attacks
> >> thru
> >> the front.
> >>
> >> -- I think that most traditional shield walls (Roman, Greek, English
> >> around 1044),
> >> etc. all used large shields. This would suggest that either the shiel
d
> >> has to be
> >> at least that large to work, or the bonus is equal to the size of the
> >> shield (so there
> >> is a strong incentive to got to larger shields.)
> >>
> >> -- The careful definition of overlapping is so shield walls can be bui
lt
> >> along
> >> alternate hex grains and so we don't have some people in the wall havi
ng
> >>
> >> more protection than others in the same wall. Basically this is so
> >> shield walls
> >> are not dominated by the hex grid. This rule does mean that the wall
> >> can
> >> curve gently. However, everyone ends up having to face the same way,
> >> you
> >> can't make a shield wall out of six figures radiating out from a centr
al
> >> hex. (Or
> >> rather you can, but the wall is only half as effective and a everyone
> >> has one
> >> side hex exposed.)
> >>
> >> -- In my campaign prerequisites are like spells, which grant you the
> >> lower level
> >> spell at no memory cost. Co-requisites are like talents where you hav
e
> >> to pay
> >> memory for the lower level talent.
> >>
> >> -- I have agis shields in my campaign (which stop 3 hits) and tower
> >> shields
> >> (which stop more, depending on size). This is why I am nervous about
> >> Neil's
> >> original rule that adds the full value of the shield to both sides. D
o
> >> we want to
> >> put a maximum of –2 hits taken in these rules to prevent shiel
d walls
> >> from being
> >> dominated by huge shields?
> >>
> >> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body
> >> "unsubscribe tft"
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > > > Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> > Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body
> > "unsubscribe tft"
>
>
>
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