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(TFT) Human Kevlar

My comments on Veterans and rolling with the punches.

On 13 July, Justin gave us:

New Talents

Combat Deftness I (2):  This talent represents the adroitness in
combat gained by years of experience.  A character when attacked
becomes -1DX to hit because of an ability to naturally bob and
weave when in combat.  Prerequisite:  DX of 14 or better.

	This is OK for those who feel Warrior/Veteran *stops* a lot
	of points or that a Dex base defense makes more sense.

IQ 11:
Combat Deftness II (2): A higher level of skill.  A character
with this talent subtracts 2 DX from any attack against him/her
in combat.  Prerequisite:  Combat Deftness I

As far as this second one goes, the character had better be in the army for a decade to experience this... or a gladiator.

Michael wrote on 13 July:

Here's a couple more for your pleasure (from an old Interplay):

QUICKNESS (IQ 12, Costs 3, needs DX 16+): This talent tones your
DX to such a degree that you are able to make that small movement
of the body necessary to make an incoming blow hit with less damage. This will stop 1 hit of damage. Prerequisite: you need
a DX of DX 16 or better.

	I'm not interested in the above one.

TOUGHNESS (IQ 8, Costs 1, needs ST 12+): This talent will exercise
your body so that the muscles are strengthened and worked up so that it will stop 1 hit of damage. This talent can be used with the Warrior or Veteran talents if you wish.

	In view of the later comments on Human Kevlar, I thought
	this might be a good variation:

	TOUGHNESS (IQ8, Cost 2, needs ST 12+)  This talent will
	excersize your body so that the blood circulation and muscles
	are strengthened and worked up so that it will reduce shock
	to 1 round and -1DX.  This talent can be used with the Warrior,
	Veteran or Campaigner if you wish.

DEFENSIVE QUICKNESS I (IQ 14, Costs 3, needs a DX 16 or better): This is a set of talents designed to eliminate the commonplace
occurrence of an easy victory being gained by the quicker of two
very talented adversaries. This ability represents the advantage a fighter would have defensively by being both mentally
and physically quick. This quickness, gained by years of combat
experience, makes him a much more difficult target. For all combat
rolls, one die (+1d6) is added to the number of dice rolled whenever anyone possessing this talent is attacked (i.e. 4/DX in
normal combat, 5/DX if Defending or Dodging). This includes surprise
and ambush attacks.

I would make "Defensive Quicknesss" an invoked ability and that because he has to apply this defense (not passively), his own attacks are at -2DX.

This falls in with Justin's concept that "Warrior & Veteran are based on combat experience." This is the Dex version of it. I think I prefer Justin's "Combat Deftness 1" to this one though. Although this seems like a good karate defense. I got this idea from GADA 16 July:

The one level of Defensive Quickness I could handle; I envision it
as a sort of "Zen" ability that combines quickness with intuition (reflected in the 14 IQ of the talent) to anticipate and dodge your

I knew there was something that was a bit too powerful about "Defensive Quickness." With this description of 'zen' ability, I'll make it available to my ninja characters.

Rick puts in on 13 July and again on 15 July:

CAMPAIGNER (3) coreq Veteran and a ST 20+ & DX 14+. Like Veteran it allows you to take 1 less point of damage by moving with the blow. (-3 hits with Warrior and Veteran.) Optional rule: The first 2 hits that get past Campaigner (and Warrior / Veteran), are fatigue damage.

First I think that the Warrior, Veteran (and Campaigner
if you use that rule) are not the way to go.  It just does not feel
right having our heros shrugging off a lot of damage.  Two or
three points no problem, but beyond that the trained flinching and
rugged build should reach a limit.

I do allow people with Veteran to turn the first point of
damage into fatigue damage.  (First 2 points with Campaigner.) This
allows Conan to recover quickly after the fight, improves the
chance he will be knocked unconscious for later dramatic excapes,
and is equally worrisome in the thick of a fight (at least if you are
hoping to win). Also the price of Veteran was so high I felt it could use the boost.

Again in view of the comotion on Human Kevlar, I suggest this change:

CAMPAIGNER (3) [IQ=11] prereq Veteran and DX 13+. This Veteran really rolls with the blows; The first 2 hits that get past Campaigner (with Warrior/Veteran), are fatigue damage.

I put 11 IQ on it so it would be someone who is wised up on combat and I lowered the cost because seldom are you going to spend 7 points (Warrior, Veteran and Campaigner) to get this.

On the topic of Human Kevlar, Dave replies on 13 July to Toughness:

In a way, this talent is a logical prequel to Warrior and Veteran, but I have a tough time believing it's possible for any human to stop 3 hits naked . . . as tough as a gargoyle, dragon, or chainmail armor! It's also cheap as hell . . . too cheap. I don't like it . . . let's just stick with Warrior and Veteran.

And Dane follows with:

Yeah, I know that is the way this one reads - but I don't usually
think of it that way. The problem with TFT is that the only real way you can defend yourself (without magic) is by either loading on the armor and/or beefing up the strength. There just has to be
some way you can parry or bob and weave without going into "full
dodge or defend" modes.

So talents which allow you absorb 1 or more points of damage don't necessarily mean that your skin is tougher - it might mean that you can dodge out of the way just enough to lessen the blow by a point of damage or two.

And followed again by Justin on 14 July

I agree with your statement. Warrior and veteran are based on combat experience. As stated under the the description, "knows how to roll with the punches". The problem though is why do both talents have prerequisites in ST. Isn't personal experience something learned. Maybe the talent should have had its prerequisites in DX, as the character "knows how to roll with the punches", or perhaps changing the IQ of the talents because of its relationship to personal experience. But then again, as TFT:ITL states on page 8, Strength governs how easily a fighter/monster can resist being knocked down or otherwise physically mistreated.

The way I see it, its based on ST because you still got hit. If it was based on DX there would be a modifier on the opponent's ability to hit you or you'd get a savings roll. Perhaps you could have it that after your opponent hits you but before he rolls damage, you make a savings roll; if you make it, then you have a chance of reducing damage...uh I guess thats something like GURPS. ooops.

Dan on 16 July replies to Michael:

The key to increasing our hero's survivability is to make
him harder to hit.  Why have talents that have him stop 3 or
6 extra hits when you can make the spear carrier miss you altogether.

Remember that armor penalties DO make you harder to hit! They reduce the attackers' chance of hitting you.

No, it doesn't.  Armor reduces an opponent's ability to do damage
to you - a fine point, maybe, but its there.

I have to agree with Dan. One reason I like TFT to D&D s taht I can see the swing of the sword; if it hits, i can feel the crunch of the impact; if it gets through, I can hear the yelp of pain. The clang of armor bouncing off a blow or the "umphhh" of a veteran rolling with the punch is not a yelp of pain, but I at least know he got hit.

John Paul

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