David,I didn't get the same feeling from Ray's comments that you did. Until I started playing TFT, combat was "purely imaginary"; by that I mean we didn't use figures. When we did use figures, they just represented our characters- no tactical movement. We just imagined the combatants and took turns attacking, rolled the dice and marked the effects on the character sheet. No on-table manuevering and thus no related tactics.
I don't think Ray is questioning whether TFT is role-playing or even if it is "pure" in the sense of being unadulterated- whatever that would mean. I think he was just saying it involves more than imagining the combats fight. In TFT, we actually have figures in a particular position on a tabletop grid system of some sort. We manuever pursuant to the rules and gain combat advantage or disadvantage depending on how we manuever and position ourselves relative to our opponents. Terrain has effects on combat movement. This type of manuevering also limits are choices of action. There is an aspect of table top skirmish combat in TFT. When I first played D&D, none of this ever occurred.
I may be wrong but I think you're taking Ray's use of "pure" in the wrong way.
FWIW, Aidan----- Original Message ----- From: "David Jackson" <azog@bellsouth.net>
To: <tft@brainiac.com> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 3:55 PM Subject: Re: (TFT) Is it an RPG or really a Tactical RPG?
Because simple terms are what we use to communicate with. If you are uncomfortable defending the terms that you use, then you shouldn't use them.You assert that games that are intended to be visualized completely in the head, with no visual aids, are the "true" or "pure" RPGs. The terms "true" and "pure" are both dangerous terms - they imply superiority, or at least, without taint.I assert that roleplaying games are roleplaying games, and don't require any particular quality to be a "true" or "pure" RPG. It's more about the people playing the game, than what you use to play it with.I find the whole notion to be pure balderdash.You want to know why you have earned my ire? Because it all sounds like define the "one true path" in gaming, and just like "one true faith", or "one true cola", it is a failed proposition, at best, and highly annoying to the rest of us, at worst.David Jackson On Apr 26, 2008, at 12:27 PM, Ray Rangel wrote:" As for whether or not you can have a roleplaying game with a hex map, that's just pure pedantic hogslop, Ray." To what do I owe your ire? By "true" or "pure" RPG, in this discussion(which has been pretty civil) we mean a game that is intended to be playedout in the imagination rather than on a board. I used the word "true"because I was quoting another person who used it. Why are you getting allwound up over a simple term? Yikes. Ray Rangel ray.rangel@cox.net http://xraysvision.blogspot.com/-----Original Message----- From: tft-admin@brainiac.com [mailto:tft-admin@brainiac.com] On Behalf Of David Jackson Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 1:05 PM To: tft@brainiac.com Subject: Re: (TFT) Is it an RPG or really a Tactical RPG? Melee and Wizard began their life as wargames; yes, wargames can be wargames without having miniatures. But what is this nonsense about "true RPGs"? Who defines this criteria? More importantly, is there a criteria which we all agree on? As for whether or not you can have a roleplaying game with a hex map, that's just pure pedantic hogslop, Ray. David Jackson===== Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com. Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body "unsubscribe tft"===== Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com. Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body "unsubscribe tft"
===== Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com. Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body "unsubscribe tft"