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Re: (TFT) Politics ramblings

If we're looking at the origins of governments on Cidri, then I would imagine it's a lot like it's happened on Earth many, many times through the centuries: - Guy with Charisma, New Followers, Diplomacy, Tactics and (maybe) Strategy gets ambitious. - He builds a strong core of followers, who are loyal to him and him only, through his Charisma and New Followers talents. - He uses Diplomacy to keep his neck out of the noose, at least in the early stages before he's built a powerful support base. - When enough people are loyal to him, he kicks out any pre-existing government and sets up a new one. The weaker the old government, the easier this is. - He keeps control of his new governmnt partly through the continued loyalty of his followers (who may become his lieges in a newly-created feudal system), and partly through threat of force. - If the ruler survives long enough in his position of power, he can choose his successor (historically, often his own son), and teach them how to run things in his absence. - With time and propaganda, the people come to believe in the power, majesty, divine right, etc. of the new ruler.

Famous Earth people that used this tactic, or a modification of it, include Napoleon, Hitler (and several other 20th century dictators), Charles Martel (grandfather of Charlemagne), and Julius Caesar.

There are, of course, many possible variations on this. Maybe the people will get tired of letting the king have all the power, and decide to make him answer to a council, Parliament, or Senate, as happened in Greece, Rome, England, several other European countries, and the U.S. (okay, so the U.S. did away with kings altogether, but still).

And then there are the exceptions. Roman rulers were elected by the people from pretty much the very beginning, until Julius Caesar took over. George Washington could have pulled this without even trying, but decided not to. The first king England was king of Wessex first, and before that his ancestors were just king of one tribe. I would guess one gets to be king of a tribe using a somewhat gentler version of the above strategy, though.

On Jun 8, 2012, at 4:26 PM, Jay Carlisle wrote:

" I think the real key is that, while political systems involve a lot of
belief, the system itself is not based on belief."

hmmmmmm I'll grant you that the system currently in force seems a LOT more "real" just by being in operation but that kind of reality can change in a
Ask Harold.

" Religion is a bit different... not believing in a religion means one does not take part in it, essentially. You don't need to believe in the king, but you still pay taxes. You don't believe in Zeus, then you don't believe
in Zeus."

I guess that depends on who's in charge.
In a Disney world the citizens love a good king who in turn cares for his
citizens like his family.
The idea of a tax collector doesn't really enter into that world.
This is a simple model that fits the typical Disney frame where the story
doesn't concern economics or politics at all.
The people pay their duties willingly knowing that the king distributes the
kingdoms resources fairly for the benefit of all q.e.d.
That's all neat and tidy for something like Dran if the frame is a basic dungeon crawl through Landmaster Hall but provides awfully poor fair for
political intrigue, and the tax man wears velvet gloves.

At this level of things, especially considering pre-tech societies, there
are going to be some axiomatic assumptions happening.
Unless your going to have actual deities the divine right routine is going to require a bit of belief and maybe a touch of friendly coercion to pull
Taxes require a Tax Collector Job and what are you to do with the actual
This applies to pretty much any system/service you might consider.
How does the "town guard" work?
Maybe each citizen takes a watch one night of every few weeks to sound an
alarm if needed.
That can be a field day for players actually but big, burly guardsmen in
chain with halberds don't just appear in an approach like this.
You get a population as a whole and priority one is keeping everyone fed.
Then there's shelter.
Clothing optional in this culture?
What is in the basic toolkit of this culture(cooking, building, etc.)?
That doesn't leave much left for professional guards.
You can have 'em if you want 'em but other work will go wanting.

I'm thoroughly confused as to what you're trying to do.

So am I.

Are you trying to come up with a game or adventure or game-mechanic that mirrors RL politics? Or are you making some comment on politics in general and just happening to use "gamer-speak" as your focus? Or something else?

uhhhh yes.
I am trying to come up with some objective mechanics for politics.
As to the "real-world" questions I painted myself into an intellectual
corner on this one.
Cidri fails as a basis for example.
Fantasy depends on reality for much of its concept but its not reciprocal.

<Hot Fuzz is on as I type this... very RPG that one and the hinge is that everyone is so happy that the crime rate is so low in the village that they
accept a very high "accident" rate which is spot on to our topic here>

So for umpteen different reasons, mainly laziness, I went with "real- world"
Earth as the example game-world.
It's quite effective for most stuff but I guess there's no polite way to
mess with other peoples suppositions and I can't see how to cater here
while keeping an objective focus.
I like the idea of a modern real-world genera as a campaign basis.
The speculation can be fun, and from a "universal game" concept there's no
escaping it as near future stuff has foundations here.
About this time last year I was looking at some "futureist" stuff to see
what the "experts" we're saying.
As is wont to happen in my... line of work (?) Netflicks started pushing
this bioflick about Ray Kurzweil who was saying some things about life
His conclusions sounded all sweet and lovely but from a GM perspective he wasn't saying a word about how the systems would be structured to deliver
his sunshine and lollypops.
You might be able to tell from my choice of words that I've not got a very
good opinion of what Ray's got to say.
It turns out Ray was on a promotional tour that week doing the talkshow circuit so I thought I had it sussed out until I did my midweek news check and saw a member of the progressive caucus from my State saying we're going to have to make cuts to Social Security because we'll all be living so much
longer in the "future".
It was a bit slobber-knocking to see as there was a study released that day
about u.s. population statistics and life expectancy that weren't
suggesting the population as a whole was improving at all and areas were
I got the first question to Kurzweil on that Fridays overtime with Bill Maher and his sorta-answer to my point was that the tech would become so
cheep that why not? in my paraphrase.
It was an interesting week to say the least.
I trust a readers ability to Google the above and see if I'm bullshitting
about the particulars of it.
Conclusions are open to interpretation but coincidence doesn't sit well for
me so I call this a propaganda "roll-out" for a campaign designed to
influence public policy.
Heinlein was a futureist, this Ray cat is selling something.
It's comforting to know that the last I'd seen he had devoted his efforts
to the study of infectious disease.
I don't know that my views are correct but it makes good fodder for
mechanics which is more important too me.
Its a strange topic...
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