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Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.

To: tft@brainiac.com
Subject: Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
From: Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:46:55 -0500
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Reply-to: tft@brainiac.com
Sender: tft-admin@brainiac.com

Tacticals have a sufficiently defined combat rule so that no gm feed
back... this is true

However,  you might be missing my point in that I think that its a fun part
of the game, and
that im looking for other games that have good tactical rules built into
them. I am a boardgamer as well as
a roleplayer. So good tactical rules in an rpg appeal to me.



On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com> wrote:

> The label is less about accurate tactics and more about the thought
> processes of the players.  The Strategic/Narrative games feature
> combat systems that run on the basis of telling the GM what you *want*
> to do and him returning with what happens, while the Tacticals have
> sufficiently defined combat rules that no GM feedback is required
> unless there is a difference between what is visible to players and
> reality (like traps, etc.).
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Joel BoardgameRpger
> <joel.siragher@gmail.com> wrote:
> > im quite familiar with herogames. I wouldnt call it tactical because its
> > missing essential zone of control elements, or what would call
> > engaged/disengaged in tft. Also Facing usually isnt taken seriously.
> There
> > is a gangup bonus. but mostly its fire and forget, leaning heavily on
> > segmented speed/movement.  Id put RQ, and paladium in the same abstracted
> > box that dnd 2,3.x came out of. FGU games and Dragon quest have good
> > candiddates but not really an option because they are completely
> > unsuported. Mind you this term 'unsupported' seems to be cropping up now
> > adays.  they take it to mean 'just recently no longer published.'   I
> > consider no longer supported as in FGU and DQ havent been printed or
> pushed
> > in 20 years. now thats a WHOLE truck load of unsupported.
> >
> > I havent tried chainmail, ill have to find a copy of the rules.
> >
> > MOARRR. MOOARRRR. :)
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Chainmail is not an RPG.  While it sits in the transitional spot from
> >> miniatures wargames to RPGs, its direct descendent (D&D) is not a
> >> tactical game.  TFT is the fence-sitter that directly spawned or
> >> inspired the tactical combat RPGs.  GURPS and Hero share the dice
> >> mechanic (3d6) and armor mechanic, but the structured options within a
> >> turn of TFT, along with movement and facing rules that actually
> >> matter, are what define the Tactical family of RPGs.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Geof Gibson <geofgibson@mac.com> wrote:
> >> > Don't forget the Grandaddy of TSR's games, Chainmail.
> >> > That was more tactical as it was really designed for miniatures rather
> >> than
> >> > extended adventures.
> >> >
> >> > On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Jim Kundert wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The most well known would be Hero (aka Champions) and 3+ D&D, but the
> >> >> semi-tactical combat of Runequest (and all of the rest of the BRP
> >> >> family, including Call of Cthulhu) also owes something to TFT. The
> >> >> first ed of Runequest even said so in the credits.  Some other more
> >> >> obscure games may also be in the tactical RPG family tree, but quite
> a
> >> >> few have gone the way of the Dodo.
> >> >>
> >> >> Compare those to the Strategics and Narratives, including all of
> TSR's
> >> >> D&D and other games, quite a lot of FGU's stable, White Wolf, Ars
> >> >> Magica, and amusingly, Palladium, which has somewhat rigorous
> movement
> >> >> rules but includes so many exceptions and scale blow-outs that combat
> >> >> is almost always narrative instead.
> >> >>
> >> >> The divide also broadly coincides with the Player Ascendent vs GM
> >> >> Ascendent phenomenon, though the match is not perfect.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Joel BoardgameRpger
> >> >> <joel.siragher@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> jim besides gurps and tft, what other games would you consider
> strongly
> >> >>> tactical.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Brett Slocum <
> brett.slocum@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Microlite 20 is not based on TFT. Its a very light d20-based
> system.
> >> >>>> On Mar 6, 2013 1:26 PM, "Jim Kundert" <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Which is ironic since TFT is the grand-daddy of the strongly
> tactical
> >> >>>>> RPG combat engines.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Geof Gibson <geofgibson@mac.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>>>> In my experience with RPGs, and this system appears to be no
> >> exception,
> >> >>>>>> movement is very abstracted and subject to the whim of the DM/GM
> as
> >> to
> >> >>>>> how
> >> >>>>>> long it takes to get there.
> >> >>>>>> The only aspects of movement with any regulation is in regards to
> >> using
> >> >>>>> DX to
> >> >>>>>> determine initiative.
> >> >>>>>> Other than that it is usually common sense.  The DM isn't going
> to
> >> let
> >> >>>> a
> >> >>>>> human
> >> >>>>>> run away from a dragon, even if he's Jesse Owens.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Joel BoardgameRpger wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Im not sure. It might be in the second volumn which i downloaded
> >> >>>>> yesterday.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Cris Fuhrman <
> >> fuhrmanator@gmail.com>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> I couldn't find base rules about movement. Is it totally
> >> abstracted?
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Joel BoardgameRpger <
> >> >>>>>>>> joel.siragher@gmail.com
> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I downloaded it, read about 130 pages and it looks good.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >
> >>
> http://blog.retroroleplaying.com/2012/02/microlite20-rpg-collection-2012-edit
> >> >>>>>> ion.html
> >> >>>>>>>> =====
> >> >>>>>>>> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the
> message
> >> >>>> body
> >> >>>>>>>> "unsubscribe tft"
> >> >>>>>>> =====
> >> >>>>>>> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> >>>>>>> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the
> message
> >> >>>> body
> >> >>>>>>> "unsubscribe tft"
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Geof Gibson - geofgibson@mac.com
> >> >>>>>> Please note my email address.  I will be retiring my old Cox
> >> account.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when
> the
> >> >>>>> government
> >> >>>>>> fears the people, there is liberty."
> >> >>>>>> Thomas Jefferson
> >> >>>>>> =====
> >> >>>>>> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> >>>>>> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the
> message
> >> body
> >> >>>>>> "unsubscribe tft"
> >> >>>>> =====
> >> >>>>> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> >>>>> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message
> >> body
> >> >>>>> "unsubscribe tft"
> >> >>>> =====
> >> >>>> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> >>>> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message
> >> body
> >> >>>> "unsubscribe tft"
> >> >>> =====
> >> >>> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> >>> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message
> body
> >> >>> "unsubscribe tft"
> >> >> =====
> >> >> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> >> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message
> body
> >> >> "unsubscribe tft"
> >> >
> >> > Geof Gibson - geofgibson@mac.com
> >> > Please note my email address.  I will be retiring my old Cox account.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the
> >> government
> >> > fears the people, there is liberty."
> >> > Thomas Jefferson
> >> > =====
> >> > Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
> >> > Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message
> body
> >> > "unsubscribe tft"
> >> =====
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> >> Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the message body
> >> "unsubscribe tft"
> > =====
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Follow-Ups:
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Joey Beutel <mejobo@comcast.net>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Sgt Hulka <hulkasgt@yahoo.com>

References:
- (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Cris Fuhrman <fuhrmanator@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Geof Gibson <geofgibson@mac.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Brett Slocum <brett.slocum@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Geof Gibson <geofgibson@mac.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Joel BoardgameRpger <joel.siragher@gmail.com>
- Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
  - From: Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>

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