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Re: (TFT) ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
I'd look at Two Hour Wargames. Great tactical miniatures games, realistic without being complicated. Easily used as an RPG (some of them are explicitly RPGlites).
On Mar 7, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joel BoardgameRpger wrote:
> Tacticals have a sufficiently defined combat rule so that no gm feed
> back... this is true
>
> However, you might be missing my point in that I think that its a fun part
> of the game, and
> that im looking for other games that have good tactical rules built into
> them. I am a boardgamer as well as
> a roleplayer. So good tactical rules in an rpg appeal to me.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The label is less about accurate tactics and more about the thought
>> processes of the players. The Strategic/Narrative games feature
>> combat systems that run on the basis of telling the GM what you *want*
>> to do and him returning with what happens, while the Tacticals have
>> sufficiently defined combat rules that no GM feedback is required
>> unless there is a difference between what is visible to players and
>> reality (like traps, etc.).
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Joel BoardgameRpger
>> <joel.siragher@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> im quite familiar with herogames. I wouldnt call it tactical because its
>>> missing essential zone of control elements, or what would call
>>> engaged/disengaged in tft. Also Facing usually isnt taken seriously.
>> There
>>> is a gangup bonus. but mostly its fire and forget, leaning heavily on
>>> segmented speed/movement. Id put RQ, and paladium in the same abstracted
>>> box that dnd 2,3.x came out of. FGU games and Dragon quest have good
>>> candiddates but not really an option because they are completely
>>> unsuported. Mind you this term 'unsupported' seems to be cropping up now
>>> adays. they take it to mean 'just recently no longer published.' I
>>> consider no longer supported as in FGU and DQ havent been printed or
>> pushed
>>> in 20 years. now thats a WHOLE truck load of unsupported.
>>>
>>> I havent tried chainmail, ill have to find a copy of the rules.
>>>
>>> MOARRR. MOOARRRR. :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Jim Kundert <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chainmail is not an RPG. While it sits in the transitional spot from
>>>> miniatures wargames to RPGs, its direct descendent (D&D) is not a
>>>> tactical game. TFT is the fence-sitter that directly spawned or
>>>> inspired the tactical combat RPGs. GURPS and Hero share the dice
>>>> mechanic (3d6) and armor mechanic, but the structured options within a
>>>> turn of TFT, along with movement and facing rules that actually
>>>> matter, are what define the Tactical family of RPGs.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Geof Gibson <geofgibson@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> Don't forget the Grandaddy of TSR's games, Chainmail.
>>>>> That was more tactical as it was really designed for miniatures rather
>>>> than
>>>>> extended adventures.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:37 AM, Jim Kundert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The most well known would be Hero (aka Champions) and 3+ D&D, but the
>>>>>> semi-tactical combat of Runequest (and all of the rest of the BRP
>>>>>> family, including Call of Cthulhu) also owes something to TFT. The
>>>>>> first ed of Runequest even said so in the credits. Some other more
>>>>>> obscure games may also be in the tactical RPG family tree, but quite
>> a
>>>>>> few have gone the way of the Dodo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Compare those to the Strategics and Narratives, including all of
>> TSR's
>>>>>> D&D and other games, quite a lot of FGU's stable, White Wolf, Ars
>>>>>> Magica, and amusingly, Palladium, which has somewhat rigorous
>> movement
>>>>>> rules but includes so many exceptions and scale blow-outs that combat
>>>>>> is almost always narrative instead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The divide also broadly coincides with the Player Ascendent vs GM
>>>>>> Ascendent phenomenon, though the match is not perfect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Joel BoardgameRpger
>>>>>> <joel.siragher@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> jim besides gurps and tft, what other games would you consider
>> strongly
>>>>>>> tactical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Brett Slocum <
>> brett.slocum@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Microlite 20 is not based on TFT. Its a very light d20-based
>> system.
>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013 1:26 PM, "Jim Kundert" <gypsycomet@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is ironic since TFT is the grand-daddy of the strongly
>> tactical
>>>>>>>>> RPG combat engines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Geof Gibson <geofgibson@mac.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In my experience with RPGs, and this system appears to be no
>>>> exception,
>>>>>>>>>> movement is very abstracted and subject to the whim of the DM/GM
>> as
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>> long it takes to get there.
>>>>>>>>>> The only aspects of movement with any regulation is in regards to
>>>> using
>>>>>>>>> DX to
>>>>>>>>>> determine initiative.
>>>>>>>>>> Other than that it is usually common sense. The DM isn't going
>> to
>>>> let
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> human
>>>>>>>>>> run away from a dragon, even if he's Jesse Owens.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Joel BoardgameRpger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Im not sure. It might be in the second volumn which i downloaded
>>>>>>>>> yesterday.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Cris Fuhrman <
>>>> fuhrmanator@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't find base rules about movement. Is it totally
>>>> abstracted?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Joel BoardgameRpger <
>>>>>>>>>>>> joel.siragher@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ok im not kidding here... This is 1080 pages of 3 stat game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I downloaded it, read about 130 pages and it looks good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://blog.retroroleplaying.com/2012/02/microlite20-rpg-collection-2012-edit
>>>>>>>>>> ion.html
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Geof Gibson - geofgibson@mac.com
>>>>>>>>>> Please note my email address. I will be retiring my old Cox
>>>> account.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when
>> the
>>>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>>>>> fears the people, there is liberty."
>>>>>>>>>> Thomas Jefferson
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>>>>>
>>>>> Geof Gibson - geofgibson@mac.com
>>>>> Please note my email address. I will be retiring my old Cox account.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the
>>>> government
>>>>> fears the people, there is liberty."
>>>>> Thomas Jefferson
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