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Re: (TFT) Shields and Feats.
My point is that basic ITL had several talents that required a higher
IQ than 8. If you wanted to be a fencer, you had to up your IQ. If you
want people to have all the good weapons talents at IQ 8, you will
have to change a basic trade off in TFT.
Now if you wanted to argue that IQ is too important, or that you
need far too high an IQ to build an unarmed combat specialist, I
won't argue. When I did a major revision of the TFT talents, I
certainly changed some of the IQ's needed.
I do think you can get a pretty good selection of fighting talents at
IQ 9 and less and still fit into the definition of a dumb fighter.
I've not claimed that my changes are in the spirit of basic ITL. I
said that wanting all the fighting talents to be IQ 8 so that dumb as
a rock fighters can take them, IS outside of the basic way TFT was
set up to run. There are LOTS of things that I have done that are
quite major changes to TFT (e.g. superscripts). Most of these
changes will affect TFT from the very beginning of play with starting
I will discuss specific points below inline. ...
On 2015-12-01, at 5:25 PM, David Bofinger wrote:
>> wedded to the idea that IQ 8 is dumb, but anything higher than it isn't
> Anything higher than it is in some sense less dumb. Removing one point of
> IQ from the range makes a difference to starting characters because they
> just don't have very many points.
> If your criterion for being smart is IQ 15 then basically no starting
> character is smart?
You can make IQ 8 characters if you want. In no way are IQ 8 characters
removed from the list of starting characters. I do think that IQ 9 fighters
should be better than IQ 8 characters, so sooner or later people will
want to raise the IQ of their fighters. To me this is just the way that TFT
I actually wrote up a starting character with ST 8, DX 8, IQ 16 to prove a
point to someone. The first attribute he earned went to DX tho. :D
And my wizard died before earning his second attribute. :(
However, ignoring this weird counter example, yes, the way basic TFT is
set up, it is really tough to make a viable character who is really smart
right out of the starting gate.
In GURPS, doing so is easy --- perhaps too easy, or at least too tempting.
But that is a debate for another thread and it has been largely fixed by
GURPS 4th edition.
>> The word arbitrarily makes this a truism - nobody gets to be a Mnoren.
> Again, I feel I'm having attributed to me positions that cannot be true.
> But for fairly generous definitions of arbitrary, up to say 50 points, the
> statement can be true. There is zero twisting since this is basically how
> TFT RAW works over a wide regime. For instance ST 25 DX 17 IQ 8 is a
> perfectly reasonable concept for a killing machine. Given we are taking
> about IQ 9 talents I think this more than covers the relevant regime.
The point is... ?
Why would anyone want to make a 50 attribute fighter with an 8 IQ? If you
wanted to do so because your character concept is that he really is as dumb
as possible, you can do so. Sure there are lots of talents he can't reach, but
that is how TFT works.
That said, you can still build the 50 attribute fighter with my new shield
talents. They in no way, stop you from doing so. Are you bothered that your
50 attribute killing machine can not take the IQ 9 Missile Weapons talent?
>> TFT has both fighters and wizards getting more
>> powerful 'crunchy stuff' based on IQ.
> You can to some extent build a high level character around IQ 14 and
> Unarmed Combat V. And the natural armour talents are useful. But neither is
> obligatory and neither is possible at low power levels. Whereas your
> optional talents are both. This is a revolutionary change which affects
> characters right out of the starting gate.
Thank you! :D
However, I don't think that adding some new shield talents is that
revolutionary. TFT has had the idea that a 'cool combat concept' which is
outside of the basic game, is added into the system with a talent, goes back
to the basic ITL. You want a system to allow people to disarm people
easily with precise hits? Well just buy the UC V talent at IQ 15.
The archery ranges in TFT are too short to match historical accounts?
Well just buy Missile Weapons talent at IQ 9. (Advanced Melee page 25.)
You want people to fight Florentine style and use weapons to parry hits?
Well just buy Two Weapons at IQ 11. etc.
I think my superscript rules are far more revolutionary - they improve
several problems with basic TFT and add to the number of possible, viable,
> If that's the change you want, fair enough. I think it has some
> consequences that are negative but that's to a large extent a matter of
> taste. But if you're claiming your system as in the spirit of the RAW then
> I think you're badly mistaken.
Warm regards, Rick.
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