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Re: (TFT) spear & halberd damage

I agree. This is why I say every variant should start with an explanation
of why it's being written.

Looks like the halberd's been nerfed because some people perceived it was
too good, the spear's been upgraded because it was perceived to be not good
enough. Probably someone's house rule that was copied over.

There's no doubt pole weapons are better than swords in the rules as they
are. If we want them to be equally good, as it looks like someone did, then
taking into account how nice the pole weapon advantages are I think giving
them about 2/3 the damage of a sword or axe at the same ST makes sense. So
if the generic sword from ST 9 to ST 15 is, say, (9:1+1, 10:2-1, 11:2+0,
12:2+1, 13:3-1, 14:3+0, 15:3+1) (a bit better than AM) then the pole weapon
might be (9:1-1, 10:1+0, 11:1+1, 12:2-2, 13:2-1, 14:2+0, 15:2+1, 16:2+2) (a
bit worse than AM). (I did that on an Excel spreadsheet just now.)

You would want to modify this for one handed versus two-handed, which
unfortunately TFT handles very badly. A simple rule might be you get +x ST
for calculating damage if you wield two-handed, or you can have y points of
protection from a shield, where y is x plus the DX penalty. Set x=1 to
approximately replicate the standard rules and maybe bigger to be more

The only other issue I can think of is the fencing talent, which for very
powerful characters makes swords better.

When I wrote a generic weapons generator program I tried to equalise the
effectiveness of all weapons, taking as much into account as I could.I'm
still not sure how to make use of it. It basically did a much more
sophisticated version of the previous paragraphs with dozens of historical


On 18 October 2015 at 15:55, Peter von Kleinsmid <pvk@oz.net> wrote:

> Practically all standard weapons in TFT follow a correspondence between ST
> and damage. Pole weapons do a little bit less, except for the weird "5th
> edition Melee" spears (though even those might be considered a little
> reduced since they are 2-handed weapons).
> For non-pole weapons:
> ST  9 1d+0        avg 3.5
> ST 10 1d+1 / 2d-2 avg 4.5 / 5
> ST 11 1d+2 / 2d-1 avg 5.5 / 6
> ST 12 2d+0        avg 7
> ST 13 2d+1 / 3d-2 avg 8.0 / 8.5
> ST 14 3d-1        avg 9.5
> ST 15 3d          avg 10.5
> ST 16 3d+1        avg 11.5
> Note the average damage steadily goes up approximately one per ST, with
> +0.5 for two-handed weapons.
> For pole weapons in Advanced Melee / ITL:
> ST  9 1d-1        avg 2.5
> ST 11 1d+0 / 1d+1 avg 3.5 / 4.5   (the 1d+0 is for using a spear
> one-handed)
> ST 13 2d+0        avg 7.0
> ST 15 2d+2        avg 9.0
> Note the damage steadily goes up approximately 2 per 2 ST, with javelins
> and spears doing .5 or 1.5 damage less but being one-handed and throwable.
> Also note the average damage is generally 1.5 less than using a
> non-pole-weapon of same ST/handedness.
> To me, it seems like the 2d-1 "Melee Halberd" and the 1d+2 "5th Edition
> Melee Spear" are out of line:
> ST 11 1d+2        avg 5.5
> ST 13 2d-1        avg 6
> Especially used together. The 1d+2 spear has +3 average damage on the
> javelin, and is only .5 less than the 2d-1 halberd. The 2d-1 halberd is
> also 3 damage less than the consistently 2d+2 pike axe. I'm admittedly
> prejudiced in favor of the AM/ITL rules, which I always used seeing no
> advantage of using plain Melee anything, but it also seems to me that these
> other spear/halberd damage numbers are just strangely off and for no reason
> I can think of.
> =====
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