Re: (TFT) Re: TFT Digest V4 #463

[Marc Gacy <marcgacy@gmail.com>]

Yes. That's it. Quite simple but quite fun.
On Dec 1, 2015 10:11 PM, "Jay Carlisle" <maou.tsaou@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://annarchive.com/files/Drmg038.pdf
> ?
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Jay Carlisle <maou.tsaou@gmail.com> wrote
:
> > Ringside... that's a title that escaped Me... Avalon Hill?
> > I have focused on athletics as a additional set of Actions that give
> > Hero's options to spend fST for enhanced effect in balance to straight
> > spells. fST fits the mechanic typically occupied by HP "damage" much
> > better I find and actually models actual conflict much better at least
> > from My limited experience as the hurt generally results from being to
> > fatigued to offer effective resistance baring lucky blows etc. with
> > effects like bleeding amplifying this idea in practice at least to
> > hear the purpose of knife combat presented in My way back days of
> > infantry training where one is either trying for a stab to the
> > internals or a slash structurally severing a major muscle group
> > mechanically mucking up function and bleeding resulting in mainly
> > fatigue although slippery grip/footing and similar may also play parts
> > but bleeding would usually not be considered a goal directly as the
> > period of time required is considerable in combat consideration where
> > a minute can be forever in practice and with ST given as 1 pt > > foot pounds of force I find what isn't mitigated can be applied to
> > describe straight injuries rather than abstract HP's that in effect
> > are serving in a similar picture without the clearer conception that
> > allows spending fatigue for greater effect gambles where pushing ones
> > luck may be the only shot to win a race or similar contest where the
> > opposition has training or a significant advantage that otherwise
> > would for all intents and purposes leave no question as to the
> > outcome. One of My gripes I've sought to address in the addition of
> > constructive elements added to what generally can be a destructive
> > model as the only means of "character" advancement problem is the fact
> > that many RPG's allow swinging swords to slay "monsters" without
> > allowing swinging bats to hit balls which points to the problem of
> > destructive focus as the only option offered which I'm not saying
> > isn't valid but I am saying isn't a requirement either for a
> > successful "game" experience. It's just the model that marketed the
> > most profits returned when totalitarian business brought out the hobby
> > and froze further development in favor of pushing the model still used
> > today in My personal impression. I find it disturbing when the
> > expectations of the community become so turned around that the release
> > of a next edition ruleset totally reworked for marketing sales with no
> > pretense whatsoever at improving existing mechanics isn't even
> > questioned for the obvious exploitation of the community it
> > demonstrates with each baby thrown out with the bathwater it service
> > of a bigger bottom line and the community accepts such as that's fine.
> > That's a paramount obstruction blocking the development of the
> > tabletop mediums potential which never managed to finish it's initial
> > conception of cutting individuals out of the Unit herd as evidenced by
> > "human MA 10" for example which is much more of a miniatures modal
> > than an expression of individuality. If I'm on the right track in
> > advocating that it's Player participation in the creation of the
> > elements added through the act of Play that amount to the story or
> > plot normally experienced passively as a finished work in other
> > storytelling mediums that bar participation in the creation of the
> > works final form is a huge failure to play to the strengths of the
> > medium in design instead trying to mimic another mediums strengths to
> > meh effect. In FPS video like Boarderlands this shows as two Players
> > getting the same cut scene regardless of the button mashing
> > performance between scenes with one Player practically perfect the
> > other pitiful in Play performance which plot invalidates when
> > pre-written  I feel a number of titles have conceptualized ideas for
> > other approaches that have seen totalitarian business tactics prevent
> > in the standard practice of gutting the development team core of a
> > title with franchise potential after the bulk of the content that can
> > be milked from them creatively has been extracted and a less
> > artistically minded crew can replace those directly tied to the
> > contents creation and more likely to contend corporate calls to
> > maximize profits not the product itself. Here's hoping the recent slap
> > the destiny ruling awarding the composer nearly point for point what
> > was asked for in the wrongful termination suit sees a halt to the
> > practice as that's a fairly clear message indicating more than a
> > misstep took place.
> > Anyway I'll see if I can dig up text on Ringside as it sounds spot on
> > to what I'm looking at for detailed dueling and blow by blow combat
> > TFT doesn't do which is tough to get across conceptually as that dice
> > roll feels like an individual blow not a cumulative result of 5
> > seconds action in the manner of u.s. football short yardage plays.
> > With each square in the 1.3m hex on quarter inch graph paper working
> > out to a good enough for government work square foot per square (more
> > like 13" by 13" but that's quibbling when that square foot is
> > conceptually so useful) I can even represent footwork for fencing or
> > the sweet science where working an opponent into a corner can be a
> > tactical goal... or the reverse rope-a-dope of course which is fatigue
> > focused for sure. Stopping a planed routine on the other hand is
> > pretty hard especially if practice has set reflexive muscle memory.
> > Ever seen the mistake happening as You make it spotting it but unable
> > to stop it? Still trying to hit that fastball You can't see is worse I
> > think for leaving one feeling helpless. Totally outclassed is a
> > horrible experience but the way to experience meh in all things is to
> > risk no weaknesses to focus on no strengths trying to cover all
> > bases...
> > Plus each sport can get a fantasy treatment times two with the real
> > teams version and the blood bowl fantasy title as stand alone product
> > from a Jay has a stomach too Ya know perspective...
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Marc Gacy <marcgacy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hey Jay,  Have you ever seen an old boxing game called Ringside, wher
> they
> >> had various moves like Uppercut and Combination.
> >>
> >> There was a matrix showing the effect of two fighters choosing a move
> >> simultaneously and revealing it.
> >>
> >> I was reminded of it seeing your list.
> >> ᐧ
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Jay Carlisle <maou.tsaou@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> X > (called Rest for simplicity)
> >>> L > S > C > K > JB > CL > R > T > P > B > Sur > OP1 > OP2 > OB1 > OB2
 >
> >>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Jay Carlisle <maou.tsaou@gmail.com>
> wrote
> >> :
> >>> > Well burst My bubble and point out the flawed model that judges the
> >>> > standard according to what humans value ergo baby chimp is less tha
n
> >>> > human because language is limited to a few phrases when human baby
> >>> > babbles with a bigger vocabulary vocal chords a moot consideration
> >>> > along with motor coordination and similar areas the humans have no
> >>> > advantage in... However the idea is that a statistical mechanic is
> >>> > representative of a definable concept that communicates an objectiv
e
> >>> > idea with some precision owing to the quantification so while total
ly
> >>> > fair as a point about assumptions of what IQ is overall I
> specifically
> >>> > use IQ as a measure of how quickly a Figure can perceive it's
> >>> > environment defined by IQ > > Figure can take on in Talents,
> Followers, and Orders and maintain at
> >>> > full effect. In effect the faster a Figure sees the smarter it is a
nd
> >>> > the more specific functions can be maintained in the same period of
> >>> > routine compared to a Figure with a lower IQ. The idea is 1pt of IQ
> >>> > cost in a Talent represents not only the IQ cost to purchase said
> >>> > Talent but also represents the time required in maintaining said
> >>> > Talent each unit of downtime routine not actively engaged in gamepl
ay
> >>> > per say. S^3 fits there as well (S#!^, shower, shave activity and t
he
> >>> > like) while 2sec/IQ (Joe Average ~0.2 second) is the see/decide tim
e
> >>> > that added with reaction time via DX (1 second / DX) determines whi
ch
> >>> > phases are Actionable for a Figure naturally for focused combat tha
t
> >>> > looks at detail the 5 second turn technically subsumes into what's
> >>> > basically a CRT for Melee as far as individual strikes are
> >>> > concerned... I use En Guard!/Swashbuckler style actions/reactions f
or
> >>> > this focus and the CRT generalization expands up into mass combat b
y
> >>> > extending scale/duration higher than 1.3m/5sec with the Lords of
> >>> > titles showing the concept isn't unfounded for TFT...
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 6:41 AM, Cris Fuhrman <fuhrmanator@gmail.com
>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >> Thomas Armstrong, "7 Kinds of Smart":
> >>> >>
> >>> >>    1. Word smart (verbal intelligence)
> >>> >>    2. Picture smart
> >>> >>    3. Music smart
> >>> >>    4. Body smart (kenesthetic intelligence)
> >>> >>    5. Logic smart (math/science)
> >>> >>    6. People smart (social sense)
> >>> >>    7. Self smart (intrapersonal intellect)
> >>> >>
> >>> >> TFT Talents try to model a lot of these notions, but it still ties
> bac
> >> k
> >>> to
> >>> >> one number (IQ). Pushing the basic Melee/Wizard model clearly fail
s
> wi
> >> th
> >>> >> reality. What about eusociality? Is ant intelligence higher than a
> >>> fighter?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> All models are wrong; some models are useful. (George Box?)
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 1:20 AM, Jay Carlisle <maou.tsaou@gmail.com
>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Got the errata
> >>> >>> Thanks
> >>> >>> And I got the IQ 7 for ProotWiz'es although they may not actually
> be
> >>> >>> proots if the tribe runs them off... anyway, I'z musing as to wha
t
> >>> >>> this might mean looking toward IQ 1 spells, if suchathing exists 
at
> >>> >>> all that is...
> >>> >>> IDK... Let's just say when testing defenses I find a fruitful fir
st
> >>> >>> start often comes from targeting the assumptions... For general
> >>> >>> discussion I often describe "Magic" as the ability to call a
> virtual
> >>> >>> particle of specific traits into being via vacuum genesis as the
> root
> >>> >>> concept being manipulated but that's just one possibility that
> serves
> >>> >>> more to show how much such a concept can influence the idea as
> oppose
> >> d
> >>> >>> to say sympathetic magic that may be heavy on components and the
> >>> >>> correct verbal, gestural, procedural components to enact which is
> >>> >>> different from blood magic and yada yada yada... what's magic is
> >>> >>> affecting and area, perhaps at a distance, with an effect, and
> often
> >>> >>> with force intent on causing damage and whateverelse is lumped in
to
> >>> >>> the idea of the basic units on "Magic".
> >>> >>> I'm not talking about being "right" or comparing ideas so much as
> >>> >>> trying to point out that a LOT of core concepts are a bit... shak
y
> >>> >>> objectively speaking and I think that the shared participation in
> >>> >>> what's in effect a story when the play is through is a major
> factor i
> >> n
> >>> >>> why a tabletop face to face soul rubbing RPGing gets a nod as a
> valid
> >>> >>> form of artistic expression albeit it's hard to say how limited t
he
> >>> >>> potential might be... and la la la, who knows? Still from that
> >>> >>> approach I find a clear expression of the basic "building blocks"
> >>> >>> helps in focusing each different Players visualization of what's
> >>> >>> happening into that shared gestalt of play.
> >>> >>> Uhhhh game as model railroad. There's the top of the model and
> there'
> >> s
> >>> >>> underneath the model and both are needed for the displays that
> attrac
> >> t
> >>> >>> the largest number of peoples attention... or describe the target
> >>> >>> interest group better if going that way with it the idea being no
t
> >>> >>> having a bunch of scenery guys show up to the experimental wiring
> >>> >>> wingding... not as likely to have everybody enjoy the focus that
> >>> >>> way...
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 9:19 PM, David Bofinger
> >>> >>> <bofinger.david@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>> > On second thoughts add:
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >    - SUMMON PROOTWADDLE (C: IQ 7, ST 1/1) Summons a prootwaddle
> [S
> >>> >>> > T 10, DX
> >>> >>> >    10, IQ 6, MA 10, carries two-handed maul 1+1, 1-3 unarmed in
> HTH
> >> ]
> >>> to
> >>> >>> fig
> >>> >>> > ht
> >>> >>> >    for the caster.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > and modify:
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >    - UNREALISTIC IMAGE (C: IQ 7, ST 1/-) Creates a translucent 
1
> he
> >> x
> >>> >>> image
> >>> >>> >    that wouldn't normally fool anyone. Last 12 turns. Can be
> >>> disbelieve
> >>> >> d
> >>> >>> on
> >>> >>> >  2
> >>> >>> >    vs IQ. Can be as effective, or almost as effective, as a
> normal
> >>> Imag
> >>> >> e
> >>> >>> sp
> >>> >>> > ell
> >>> >>> >    in difficult seeing conditions (fog, etc.), if the creature
> bein
> >> g
> >>> >>> simula
> >>> >>> > ted
> >>> >>> >    happens to be translucent, or if the observer is a
> prootwaddle.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > The spells are IQ 7, not IQ 1. Probably should be a space
> between I
> >> Q
> >>> an
> >>> >> d
> >>> >>> 7.
> >>> >>> > The idea is that an ordinary prootwaddle can't learn them, but
> one
> >> of
> >>> >>> those
> >>> >>> > rare freakish prootwaddle geniuses can.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > --
> >>> >>> > David
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > On 1 December 2015 at 15:05, David Bofinger <
> >>> bofinger.david@gmail.com>
> >>> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >> I think animals should have a sort of IQ crippleware. It can d
o
> >>> some o
> >>> >> f
> >>> >>> >> what IQ does, willpower and perception for instance, but not
> >>> everythin
> >>> >> g.
> >>> >>> >> And they have instinctive talents like Alertness.
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> My IQ 7 spells are:
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>    - BLUNT WEAPON (T: IQ7, ST 1/-) A blunt weapon does 1 point
> les
> >> s
> >>> >>> >>    damage. A weapon can be blunted up to 5 times, subsequent
> uses
> >>> of t
> >>> >> he
> >>> >>> > spell
> >>> >>> >>    have no effect. Blunting is a permanent effect and can be
> >>> corrected
> >>> >>> by
> >>> >>> >>    Repair or use of a whetstone. Ineffective against weapons
> that
> >>> are
> >>> >>> alr
> >>> >>> > eady
> >>> >>> >>    blunt.
> >>> >>> >>    - FOG (C: IQ7, ST 1/-) Fills one hex with a magical fog tha
t
> >>> somewh
> >>> >> at
> >>> >>> >>    obscures vision. -2 DX for missiles per hex of fog, and -2
> DX i
> >> f
> >>> >>> attac
> >>> >>> > king
> >>> >>> >>    into or out of it. Anyone in or entering the fog also becom
es
> >>> >>> slightly
> >>> >>> >>    damp. Lasts 12 turns, or less in wind.
> >>> >>> >>    - KILL RAT (T: IQ7, ST 1/-) Causes 1 point of damage. Does
> get
> >>> >>> stopped
> >>> >>> >>    by armour.
> >>> >>> >>    - LITERACY (S: IQ7, ST 2/-) Allows the caster to read and
> write
> >>> any
> >>> >>> >>    languages he knows, but reduces his IQ to 6 and disorders h
is
> >>> commo
> >>> >> n
> >>> >>> s
> >>> >>> > ense.
> >>> >>> >>    The spell lasts one minute: long enough to, for instance,
> write
> >>  a
> >>> >>> slog
> >>> >>> > an on
> >>> >>> >>    his own or another prootwaddle's body. The negative effects
> of
> >>> the
> >>> >>> spe
> >>> >>> > ll,
> >>> >>> >>    however, pretty much guarantee the slogan will be bizarre a
t
> >>> best a
> >>> >> nd
> >>> >>> >>    gibberish at worst.
> >>> >>> >>    - MAGIC ROCK (M: IQ7, ST V/-) Creates and flings a magic
> rock t
> >> o
> >>> >>> >>    damage a single target. Does 1D-3 (minimum 0) for each ST
> point
> >>> use
> >>> >> d
> >>> >>> t
> >>> >>> > o
> >>> >>> >>    cast.
> >>> >>> >>    - PROOT! (T: IQ7, ST 1/-) Makes a loud ��Pro
> >> ot! Proo-oot!ï
> >>> >> ¿½â‚¬
> >>> >>> >   noise –
> >>> >>> >>    louder than a prootwaddle can make. Prootwaddles find the
> sound
> >>> >>> reassu
> >>> >>> > ring.
> >>> >>> >>    Non-prootwaddles find it irritating.
> >>> >>> >>    - PUSH / PULL (T: IQ7, ST 2/-) Victim must roll 3 vs DX, or
> 4 v
> >> s
> >>> ST
> >>> >> ,
> >>> >>> >>    victim's choice. If he fails he must step directly away fro
m
> (f
> >> or
> >>> >>> push
> >>> >>> > ) or
> >>> >>> >>    toward (for pull) the caster, or fall down. (As though
> forced t
> >> o
> >>> >>> retre
> >>> >>> > at.)
> >>> >>> >>    Can also be used to push around inanimate objects, or even
> >>> friends.
> >>> >>> >>    - SPEED HAIR (T: IQ7, ST 3/-) For the next day the target's
> hai
> >> r
> >>> >>> >>    (wherever on body) grows at twice the normal rate.
> >>> >>> >>    - SUMMON HOUSE CAT (C: IQ7, ST 1/1) Summons a House Cat [ST
> 4,
> >>> DX 1
> >>> >> 4,
> >>> >>> >>    IQ 5, MA 14. 1-2 in HTH only, -3 DX for enemies to hit it] 
to
> >>> fight
> >>> >>> fo
> >>> >>> > r the
> >>> >>> >>    caster.
> >>> >>> >>    - SUMMON VERMIN (T: IQ7, ST 1/1) Summons vermin to fight fo
r
> th
> >> e
> >>> >>> >>    caster, of a kind with which the caster is familiar: rats,
> bats
> >> ,
> >>> >>> piran
> >>> >>> > has,
> >>> >>> >>    piranhakeets, scuttles or something similar at GM discretio
n.
> >>> Roll
> >>> >>> one
> >>> >>> >  die
> >>> >>> >>    for the number, -1 if the environment is not really
> suitable, -
> >> 2
> >>> if
> >>> >>> hi
> >>> >>> > ghly
> >>> >>> >>    unsuitable, -1 for bats, -2 for piranhakeets.
> >>> >>> >>    - THICKSKINNED (T: IQ7, ST 2/-) Target's skin becomes thick
> and
> >>> >>> >>    leathery, it stops 2 hits but the target suffers -1 DX.
> >>> >>> >>    - UNREALISTIC IMAGE (C: IQ7, ST 1/-) Creates a translucent 
1
> he
> >> x
> >>> >>> image
> >>> >>> >>    that wouldn't normally fool anyone. Last 12 turns. Can be
> >>> disbeliev
> >>> >> ed
> >>> >>> > on 2
> >>> >>> >>    vs IQ. In difficult seeing conditions (fog, etc.) can be
> almost
> >>> as
> >>> >>> >>    effective as a regular Image. Also effective if the creatur
e
> >>> being
> >>> >>> >>    simulated happens to be translucent.
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> --
> >>> >>> >> David
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> On 1 December 2015 at 13:23, Jay Carlisle <maou.tsaou@gmail.co
m
> >
> >>> wrote
> >>> >> :
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> Agreed David... working up a basic Google.doc for each stat a
s
> I
> >>> >>> >>> currently have worked up. In a 3 stat system each stat needs
> to d
> >> o
> >>> >>> >>> more than a single task and I use IQ as a measure of percepti
on
> >>> and a
> >>> >> s
> >>> >>> >>> a measure of how effective a Figure or Unit can be at
> >>> micro-managing
> >>> >>> >>> its time which in effect allows more Followers/Talents/Orders
> to
> >> be
> >>> >>> >>> carried the higher the IQ. Orders are in effect Talents
> learned a
> >> s
> >>> a
> >>> >>> >>> Unit and able to be executed en mass and the above is more a
> rule
> >>> of
> >>> >>> >>> thumb guide to what kind of Orders might be expected from a
> Unit
> >> of
> >>> >>> >>> whathaveyou rather than trying to pin individual IQ's per
> say...
> >>> >>> >>> although the point about the monkey is quite interesting...
> >>> assuming
> >>> >>> >>> communication was possible such that an Order set was able to
> be
> >>> >>> >>> established and the monkey was hip to thinking like a human o
f
> >>> course
> >>> >> .
> >>> >>> >>> Plant's as individuals may not influence on a Melee scale of
> acti
> >> on
> >>> >>> >>> but the idea of a bio-region of plants being in a network may
> all
> >> ow
> >>> >>> >>> some influence on such activity? Agent Orange? IDK... How muc
h
> do
> >> es
> >>> >>> >>> swimming have to do with smart?
> >>> >>> >>> Great points to mull over Sir, I'd love to see anything You
> might
> >>> hav
> >>> >> e
> >>> >>> >>> to hand on IQ7 spells by the way... no worries though.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 5:23 PM, David Bofinger
> >>> >>> >>> <bofinger.david@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >>> >>> >> IQ
> >>> >>> >>> >> 0 >> >> 1 >> >> 2 >> >> 3 >> >> 4 >> >> 5 >> >> 6 >> >> 7
> >> >
> >>>
> >>> 8
> >>> >>> >> >> 9 >> >> 10 >> >
> >>> >>> >>> > TL;DR but I picked this up skimming. My first instinct is
> that
> >>> it's
> >>> >>> go
> >>> >>> > t
> >>> >>> >>> to
> >>> >>> >>> > be wrong. By these definitions a fighter who owned a pet
> monkey
> >>> mig
> >>> >> ht
> >>> >>> > be
> >>> >>> >>> > well advised to let it handle the thinking.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > IQ 7 lets you buy weapon skills. I don't know if anyone's
> taugh
> >> t
> >>> a
> >>> >>> >>> monkey
> >>> >>> >>> > to fence, but I would guess someone in a circus has tried s
o
> >>> probab
> >>> >> ly
> >>> >>> >>> they
> >>> >>> >>> > failed.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Great apes will occasionally use clubs but that doesn't
> require
> >>  a
> >>> >>> >>> talent.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Some apes have been taught e.g. sign language but that has
> no I
> >> Q
> >>> >>> >>> threshold
> >>> >>> >>> > unless you call it literacy in which case it's IQ 8.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Maybe chimps are IQ 4 to 6? That leaves prootwaddles slight
ly
> >>> smart
> >>> >> er
> >>> >>> >>> than
> >>> >>> >>> > most chimps which seems right.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Birds vary a lot. Some birds, mostly corvids and parrots, a
re
> >>> reall
> >>> >> y
> >>> >>> >>> quite
> >>> >>> >>> > smart, probably maxing out at IQ 5 or 6. On the other hand
> >>> ratites
> >>> >>> ten
> >>> >>> > d
> >>> >>> >>> to
> >>> >>> >>> > be idiots.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Dolphins aren't as smart as popularly imagined.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Working at the trailing edge of intellect reminds me of whe
n
> I
> >>> wrot
> >>> >> e
> >>> >>> u
> >>> >>> > p
> >>> >>> >>> IQ
> >>> >>> >>> > 7 spells for prootwaddle wizards. Magic Rock!
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > --
> >>> >>> >>> > David
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > >> > Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com
.
> >>> >>> >>> > Unsubscribe by mailing to majordomo@brainiac.com with the
> >>> message
> >>> >>> body
> >>> >>> >>> > "unsubscribe tft"
> >>> >>> >>> >> Post to the entire list by writing to tft@brainiac.com.
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> message
> >>> bod
> >>> >> y
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> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
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