Re: (TFT) 8 hits or more --> Duration of fall and cannon

[Rick Smith <rsmith@lightspeed.ca>]

Hi David,
  Here are my 2 cents on what is cannon...

  The FM screen has to condense and paraphrase rules.  I
would not look to it when there are rules written in full
else where.

  The Codex was pretty sloppily thrown together.  It had
a handful of errata some of which I considered to be 
wrong.  (I have not looked at the Codex in years.  I don't
remember what in particular offended me.)  If the Codex
contradicts the rules about your only choice is to 
decide you want to go with the new rules, or stick with 
the old ones.  Don't expect that careful study will 
resolve the differences.

  So let me go thru your post and dissect things...
My comments will be inline between *** & ***:


On Sun, 2006-11-12 at 09:06, David O. Miller wrote:
> Hi everyone--

> "You may rise from a prone/crawl posture to a kneeling/standing posture 
> during movement. It costs your full MA."
> 
> This is in keeping with all of the Microquest versions of the rules and 
> seems to imply that the advanced rules are either incorrect or altered 
> from the Microquest versions.

  ***  One vote for microgames ***
> 
> But then here's the second item, under "Reaction to Injuries" on the 
> same "Fantasy Masters' Screen". The text reads:
> 
> "See Advanced Melee, page 18. When a fall down result occurs during 
> combat, the target must lose one action phase and one movement phase."
> 
> So how can a figure stand up during the next movement phase if he 
> looses the next movement phase?

  ***  Condensed rules?  Should it say: "...movement is lost EXCEPT for
standing..." perhaps? *** 
> 
> And page 18 in Advanced Melee does not really say this. It simply says 
> that:
> 
> "A figure that takes 8 hits or more in one turn IMMEDIATELY falls down. 
> If it has not already attacked, it may not attack that turn. It may do 
> nothing NEXT turn except stand up (or stay down)." We are back to being 
> consistent with the microquest games again.

  *** 2 votes for microgame rules ***
> 
> Recently John brought up the Codex which says:
> 
> "The Codex answers this question by saying one turn is one action 
> (attack) and one movement.  So you lose the next movement and next 
> action you are entitled to, even if they are in different rounds." That 
> seems to comply with item two from the  "Fantasy Masters' Screen" I 
> mentioned above.

  ***  I think that this wording was used to fix a DIFFERENT problem:
that people were wondering if the -2 DX for 5 hits got you once or 
twice if you took that 5 hits before your action.  I rule that it 
was both, but Metagaming felt that losing half a typical person's 
hit points should only punish you for one action, not two.

  I think that this is an example of an awkwardly written answer to
one rule question breaking another rule. ***

> 
> But the Advanced rules do not explain a turn in this way at all. It 
> says (on page 2) that a turn is 5 seconds long and during each turn a 
> figure can execute one option from the list which consists of a 
> movement, attack, defense, or other combination. This, again, is also 
> exactly the way the rules are stated in the Microquest versions of the 
> game.

  *** Three votes for microgames ***
...
> 
> It's a mess.
> 
> Therefore I'm not so sure I agree at all with the game masters screen 
> or codex here. It's a fundamental change to the game to alter the turn 
> order from move/action to the next move phase/next action phase. This 
> seems to be a major alteration coming from nothing more than a simple 
> game master's screen.
> 
> So what's up with all of these altered rules?
> 
> Was the codex and or game masters screen written after SJ's departure 
> from Metagaming and are we starting to see HT assert some changes to 
> the rules that were not completely thought out here? 

  *** Yes, HT wanted a much simpler version of TFT.  A number of 
his decisions I disagreed with and I stopped buying TFT products.
Dragon's of Underearth was an expensive waste of time.  I had all
TFT products, what new stuff did it offer other than a new counter
sheet?  If HT had offered new crunchy bits (new spells, new items,
new monsters) he would have had a bunch of guaranteed sales.  
Instead he tried to sell us an over simplified set of rules with
NO new content and thousands of TFT fanatics stayed away in 
droves...  ***

> The big question I have then is what does everyone consider to be in 
> the "official cannon"?  ...
> 
> I really feel like an archaeologist trying to piece together a 
> manuscript from centuries ago to establish the intent of the original 
> author here.
> 
> Looking forward to comments,
> --David O. Miller

  *** 3 votes for Microgame versions (not counting 2 editions
of Wizard and 4 editions of Melee) would to me be the cannon.
Of course, I've long ago stopped worrying about cannon and 
picked or invented rules that make sense to me. 

  I play that the -2 DX for 5 hits last for the rest of this
turn and all of next turn.  You've taken a serious wound!  Why
would the effect wait around for a while before you feel the
shock?  If you say, "but if I have not taken my action yet, so
I am being punished twice", then I would reply, "It sucks to 
have a low DX" or alternately "If my DX is higher than yours
then I should be rewarded for going first and hitting and 
getting thru your armor and getting a serious wound."

  Anyway, there is a discrepancy in the rules, so my advice is
to forget cannon and pick what makes sense to you.  If you 
insist on cannon, then go with the microgame rules.  That was
what SJ wrote, and I think the contradictions that arose after
that was poor rules writing by those condensing rules or 
trying to fix a different rule not considering the question 
you are puzzling over. ***


> On Nov 9, 2006, at 1:52 PM, Rick Smith wrote:
> 
> > Hi David, everyone.
> >   The way we play is that if you are knocked down
> > for any reason EXCEPT DAMAGE then you get up
> > during movement.
> >
> >   If you fall down because of damage then you get
> > up during option phase at your adj DX.
> >
> >   This makes falling because of damage very
> > dangerous.  I also use the pole weapons must do a
> > 3 hex charge to get the double damage bonus, so
> > they have to have running and some room to get
> > the double damage attack.  (And they can't be
> > engaged to someone else of course.)


   Warm Regards, Rick.
=====
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